Guest: Rep. Anthony Weiner, Hal Sparks
RACHEL MADDOW, HOST: Good evening, Lawrence. Let me just take a
second here to tell you how grateful all of us at MSNBC have been to have
you here filling in for Keith while he‘s been away dealing with family
stuff. You‘ve done a tremendous, tremendous job. You‘ve just been great
to work with, Lawrence. Thanks.
LAWRENCE O‘DONNELL, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.
MADDOW: Thanks to you at home as well for tuning in. It is Friday.
It‘s Friday! Yes! This was a 30-day week, I‘m sure of it.
But for the first time since the presidential campaign today, John
McCain and Sarah Palin got reunited today.
We‘ll also be joined this hour by Richard Engel.
I will get professional advice on how not to run for Senate in
Massachusetts against Scott Brown because, so far, I seem to be really,
really bad at that.
And one of my favorite live moments in the history of broadcasting was
blessedly caught on tape right here at MSNBC today.
And with permission from the person who himself on camera did the
remarkable thing, we will relive that moment tonight. I know I‘m being a
little mysterious here, but when you see it, you‘ll understand. I can‘t
spoil it. You have to see it.
All coming up this hour.
But we begin tonight by acknowledging that there is political life
after health reform. The sky has not fallen, death panels are not
convening, to reap communist, fascist, death panel-y things upon the
nation, and Democrats have learned that passing stuff is one way to make
politics work well for you.
Today, President Obama, Democrats and Republicans, all began day one
of their new post-health reform political lives. Republicans started in
the U.S. Senate by preventing the passage of benefits for Americans who are
out of work. Republican Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, turning himself
into a one-man roadblock, a one-man objection to the Senate‘s attempt to
pass an extension of unemployment benefits before the start of the Easter
recess.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there an objection?
SEN. TOM COBURN ®, OKLAHOMA: I‘m reserving the right to object.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator from Oklahoma?
COBURN: Again, I would note that this is the fourth time I‘ve done
this. I have to object because we will be adding to the debt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Thanks to Mr. Coburn‘s objections, hundreds of thousands of
jobless Americans may lose their unemployment benefits now, until Congress
comes back from its recess. That was post-health care day one for
Republicans in Washington.
Meanwhile in Arizona, the team that led Republicans to their current
minority status in Washington got back together again for the first time
since the election in which they came in second. Sarah Palin hit the
campaign trail again today to stump for her old friend, John McCain, and
his heated battle to hold on to his Senate seat come November.
Since she quit as governor of Alaska, Ms. Palin may be officially out
of the politics game now. But it turns out political speechifying is
something that just never really leaves you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN ®, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: I think this go-around, when
all the votes are tallied, I think he‘s going to win this one.
(CHEERING)
PALIN: We‘ve come a long way from the 2008 campaign, but one thing
that has not changed is my deep respect and admiration for the McCains, and
my support of Senator John McCain.
(CHEERING)
PALIN: Louisiana‘s governor recently said, you know, we‘re being
accused of being the party of no because we oppose some of the things that
the administration‘s doing. The Louisiana governor says, “Well, no, we‘re
not the ‘party of no.‘ We‘re the ‘party of hell no.‘”
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: No, we can‘t. No, we can‘t. Hell no. The “party of hell
no.” They want to be called the “party of hell no.”
Go on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: You know, here in the news reports lately, kind of this ginned
up controversy about us, common sense conservatives, inciting violence
because we happen to oppose some of the things in the Obama administration.
(BOOS)
PALIN: This B.S. coming from the lame-stream media lately about us—
about us inciting violence. Don‘t let—don‘t let the conversation be
diverted. Don‘t let a distraction like that gets you off track.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: We haven‘t done any of that alleged inciting—says the
woman who urged conservatives this week to reload, and then kindly offered
a map with all these friendly rifle scopes to direct conservatives to where
to aim their proverbial fire.
Please go on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Let me clear the air right now. We might as well call it like
we see, it right, and not beat around the Bush. In respect to the tea
party movement—beautiful movement, you know what? Everybody here today
supporting John McCain, we‘re all part of that tea party movement, because
--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Remember first when it was “We are all Georgians” when
Russian invaded the Republic of Georgia. And then it was, “We are all Joe
the plumber.” Now, it‘s “We are all tea partiers.”
It turns out we‘re a whole lot of things. We, in fact, are crowded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: John McCain is standing up for the time-tested truths that
have built this country into the greatest country on earth, and it‘s why
we‘re so proud to be Americans, and we don‘t apologize for America.
(CHEERING)
PALIN: He has stood up for these truths, the belief that the
government that governs least governs best.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: It‘s nice to have them back together, isn‘t it?
While the Republican Party is framing itself now with all these
exclamation points, as the government in waiting that would like to not
really govern at all, that would like to govern as little as possible—
while Republicans are framing themselves that way, the actual government is
busy governing.
Today was day one of their post-health reform lives as well for
President Obama and the Democrats. Riding the wave of their legislative
victory on health reform, the administration and congressional Democrats
are in position now of deciding what they want to do next, toward what goal
would they like to apply the political capital they have just earned with
this big win on health care.
It turns out they have decided to not take on something easy, they‘ve
decided to not go for a political gimme, they‘ve decided to not construct
something to run against that isn‘t real but gives them good headlines.
Instead they‘re going after one of the heaviest things that is weighing on
the country right now—struggling homeowners who can‘t pay their
mortgages and they‘re getting their homes taken over by the very banks
which we all helped bailout.
Ten million to 12 million homeowners are now in danger of getting
foreclosed on in the next three years. To help people who are now in that
situation and in trouble today, the White House announced a number of new
initiatives. Unemployed homeowners are now eligible for three to six month
break—for a three to six-month break on their mortgage payments.
If you own your home and don‘t have a job, you may soon be able to
modify your mortgage so you‘re not spending any more than 31 percent of
your monthly income paying to stay in your home.
The White House is also rolling out new financial incentives for banks
to reduce mortgage payments for homeowners who are under water, who owe
more on their loans than their home is worth.
Democrats also just voted to take commercial banks out of the student
loan market. And it sounds like sort of a finicky regulatory change of
some sort, it‘s actually very simple. For years, government gave
commercial banks like Sallie Mae, for example, guaranteed federal subsidies
to make college loans to students. Trust me, I‘ve had my share. On top of
those subsidies, the government assumed most of the risk for these loans
that the banks were giving out.
So, if you think about that for a second, the banks were essentially
getting guaranteed profits on these loans and no risks—all for the
privilege of being the middleman in all of our college loans. So, why not
cut out the middleman and let the taxpayers make the profit on these loans,
since it‘s we, the taxpayers, who were assuming the risk on them anyway?
That‘s what Congress has just done. And the profit we‘ll be making
instead of those commercial banks will go to pay for more student grants
for people who now can‘t afford college.
Ta-da! Government. Neat.
In the wake of this huge momentous legislative achievement for
Democrats this week in health reform, it is back to the starting line for
both parties in terms of what to do next in politics. And this is how
they‘ve gotten out of the gate.
Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Anthony Weiner of New York.
Congressman Weiner, thanks very much for coming in tonight.
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: It‘s my pleasure. Thanks.
MADDOW: Now that the health reform fight is done for now, we‘re
starting anew. In terms of legislating, what do you see as the main
priorities for what Democrats are going to do with the sort of political
capital they earned on health reform?
WEINER: Well, I think we‘ve kind of set up this paradigm that‘s
exactly the way it look, which are Democrats are trying to solve problems.
We don‘t always get it perfect and sometimes we have internal battles, but
we‘re trying to figure out a way to move the ball forward.
And the Republicans are stuck in a place that they don‘t really have
an agenda beyond stopping us from doing stuff. Now, admittedly it‘s
sometimes pretty easy to stop us from doing stuff. Sometimes, we can do it
all alone without their help, but I think the American people of all
political stripes ultimately want government to work. They wanted to
accomplish things, and actually, I believe that the American people admire
the idea that we believe things and are trying to achieve them, even if
they‘re not 100 percent with us on every line of it.
So, we have this dynamic that their entire raison d‘etre on the
Republican Party is to gum up the works. You saw Coburn do it. You saw
Republicans pledge every single day that they‘re going to try to stop us
from getting anything done.
We‘re going to try to relieve the burden on homeowners, and it‘s not
just for the people that are going to get the relief. If you live next
door to a foreclosed house, you‘re having a pretty bad day. We‘re going to
try to figure out a way to lift the middle class up by trying go get the
economy go again. Health care is a big part of that. Student loans are a
big part of that.
All these arguments that two things don‘t go together—no, they‘re
actually go together. They‘re the two biggest things that middle class
people worry about—going bankrupt because of health care and not being
able to afford to send their kids to college.
Now, we‘re going to keep trying these things. And I think the
president realizes that if the Republicans want to go backwards and keep
litigating health care reform, OK, because it‘s just going to re-enforce
the idea that we‘re moving in the other direction.
MADDOW: The other thing that is still out there in politics, and I
realize it‘s gotten a lot of ink and attention in the past couple of days
and I don‘t want to overdo it. But I know it personally affected you in
terms of your office receiving some specific threats. And I know that it‘s
and something about which I‘m very concerned, and that is the idea that
the anger that‘s out there in the country about political matters has been
channeled into both violence and threats in the form of intimidation.
In terms of your specific experience, what you‘ve been through, what
you think is going on in the country right now, how does it make you feel
to see Sarah Palin seeing this is a side issues, it‘s a diversion, we
shouldn‘t be talking about it?
WEINER: Well, first of all, you‘ve got to wonder if there‘s a little
thought bubble above John McCain is thinking standing behind that woman.
What happened to John McCain, he used to be someone that, you know, stood
up for what he believes. Now, he‘s become captive to this tea party thing
also.
The mistake that Sarah Palin is making is that, yes, we know it‘s a
metaphor to say to target members and to put them into the crosshairs. The
problem is, as I‘ve watched my mail, and maybe I‘ve led with my chin more
than most people so I get more mail than most people, you see the movement
of the line and you can see how crazy out there doesn‘t understand it‘s a
metaphor, and that reload is not just a figure of speech.
And I‘ve gotten a bunch of mail, most of it reasoned, some of it very
passionate, but a few folks who clearly don‘t understand that Sarah Palin
is talking in metaphors. And she needs to understand that. That‘s part of
being a leader in this country, is saying to your own crazies, you‘ve got
to dial it down some.
We saw in Congress in the last 10 days people getting into the House
gallery and heckling and being cheered by Republican members. Republican
members saying to another, you‘re a baby killer. Republican members
standing on the portico on the Capitol building urging on people who at the
same time were cursing and were saying anti-Semitic and racist things to
members of Congress.
The Republican Party has to realize it‘s their responsibility to stand
up against that kind of thing, not just say—oh, everyone is doing it.
MADDOW: On the issue of what our national conversation is, it‘s one
thing to talk about the tone of it and appropriateness of it and whether or
not it crosses the line, and it is anymore a conversation. It‘s another
thing to think about the big ideas that we‘re actually fighting about.
A lot of conservative friends that I have, Republican friends that I
have, and I do have conservative and Republican friends, have been saying
to me for a long time what we want is a big picture, big ideas debate
between liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican, on the role of
government—because Republicans think that is an argument that they will
always win with the American people, that government is best which governs
least and that big government is something that all Americans are afraid
of.
Do you think that they‘re right, that they have an advantage on that?
And do you think we‘re ready to finally have a national discussion on that?
WEINER: Look, I would welcome that debate because I think the
American people are saying something different. They want increased
security at the airports. They want people to protect the quality of their
food. They want people to figure out a way to reel in the abuses of the
big insurance companies.
They‘re actually saying to us, we don‘t necessarily want a bigger
government, but we do want a government that responds to the problems we
had. We kind of had this debate in the campaign of 2008, and we won. When
we—you know, for years, we had essentially none of these problems
getting addressed either domestically or internationally. That was going
on and the American people said, of all political stripes, you know, we
need to start solving some of these problems.
And I think to some degree the Republican Party is stuck in a place
that they‘re bound to be even—a permanent minority, because not only are
they saying we want to do less, they‘re saying we want to do crazy things,
too. You know, they‘ve got this radical fringe element that‘s tugging them
away from doing anything to solve problems. I think the abiding thing the
American people want is problem-solving.
We‘re trying to solve problems on health care. We‘re trying to solve
problems on the economy. We‘re trying to solve problems on student loans
and on foreclosures.
And the other guys are simply saying “no.” We‘re not going to do any
of that stuff and we‘re not going to help you even with one vote on trying
to get that done.
MADDOW: Democratic Congressman Anthony Weiner of New York—thank
you for coming in on a Friday night and a holiday. It‘s good to have you
here. Thank you.
WEINER: Thank you. My pleasure.
MADDOW: If you are the Republican Party and you want anyone to take
your lawsuits against the government takeover of health care seriously, you
really don‘t want the help of the governor of Nevada. But that help,
you‘ve got. That‘s coming up in just a moment.
And later, I will get some professional advice about how to not run
for Senate against Scott Brown in Massachusetts. Whatever I‘m trying in
terms of not running against him doesn‘t seem to be working so far.
Please stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: Sarah Palin is following up her critically-acclaimed
appearance alongside John McCain today in Arizona with another southwest
trip. She‘s going to be going to Nevada to a great big tea party protest
that‘s being billed as the conservative Woodstock. It‘s in Senate Majority
Leader Harry Reid‘s hometown of Searchlight, Nevada. Joe the Plumber is
also expected to make an appearance at the conservative Woodstock.
It could turn out to be an awkward reunion since Mr. The Plumber
recently declared that John McCain screwed up his life, that John McCain
was trying to use him on the campaign trail and that, quote, “I don‘t owe
him bleep.” Have fun in Searchlight with Governor Palin, Mr. Plumber. Oh,
to be a fly on the wall.
The conservative road show going to Nevada may be very energizing to
tea party conservators and activists in that part of the country. But if
Republican elected officials are hoping to capitalize on that energy, it
turns out—and I think this is important to note in the coverage here—
that elected Republican officials in the state of Nevada are not in a great
position to capitalize on anything like that right now.
Nevada‘s other senator, for example, who is not Harry Reid, is
Republican John Ensign. He‘s in the middle of a sex and lobbying scandal.
He‘s being investigated by both the Senate Ethics Committee and the Justice
Department. A raft of Las Vegas businesses have John Ensign to thank, for
example, for federal subpoenas that they have recently been served.
The other highest-ranking Republican in the state of Nevada is
Governor Jim Gibbons.
Now, if you are not a Nevadan and the name Jim Gibbons is familiar to
you, it might be because of that time in 2006 when Mr. Gibbons was accused
of assaulting a cocktail waitress in a parking lot. Or the time this year
when, by way of defending himself against those charges, he volunteered in
a legal deposition that he has not had sex with anyone in 15 years. The
governor was not asked a question that lead directly to that, he
volunteered that information.
Perhaps you‘re also thinking of the time that he made news for sending
hundreds of text messages to, not his wife, from his state-owned cell
phone.
But if you‘re not from Nevada and you have heard the name Jim Gibbons,
you‘ve heard of Governor Jim Gibbons, I have to say that the most likely
reason is that you have watched hundreds of times, like most of us here at
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW have, one of the most incredible local news videos
I‘ve ever seen. It‘s a video starring the governor, and a local TV
reporter named Jonathan Humbert.
Governor Gibbons was returning from the National Governors Association
meeting in Washington and Mr. Humbert, the reporter, was waiting for him at
the Reno Airport, where the governor arrived with a companion who he
bizarrely and repeatedly tried to insist was not there.
I bet you‘ve seen this. But if you haven‘t—here‘s an excerpt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN HUMBERT, REPORTER: Did you go with anyone today?
GOV. JIM GIBBONS ®, NEVADA: Well, what‘s it to you? Yes, I went
with security.
HUMBERT: And anyone else?
GIBBONS: Well, what‘s it to you?
HUMBERT: No one else came with you on this trip?
GIBBONS: No.
HUMBERT: Kathy Karrasch didn‘t accompany you on this trip? She did
not.
GIBBONS: No.
HUMBERT: She‘s not in this airport right now?
GIBBONS: No.
HUMBERT: She was not on that flight?
GIBBONS: No.
HUMBERT (voice-over): Despite what the governor says, our cameras
caught Karrasch heading into an airport bathroom. She came out but ran
back inside after seeing our camera.
When she came out, we asked her about the trip.
(on camera): Did you attend this conference in any way with the
governor?
KATHY KARRASCH: I did not attend any conference in anyway.
HUMBERT (voice-over): She walked toward an SUV with tinted windows,
the governor‘s state-owned vehicle.
(on camera): So, you‘re saying that you did not attend the conference
with the governor even though we saw you coming off the plane directly
after him?
KARRASCH: You know what, I could have been in Las Vegas having tea
with the first lady?
HUMBERT (voice-over): Then the governor walked out to the vehicle.
HUMBERT: Governor you told just 10 minutes ago that Kathy Karrasch
was not on this flight.
GIBBONS: Yes, I did.
HUMBERT: Do you want to change your statement?
GIBBONS: She was not with me in Washington, D.C. I can‘t control
where she goes or what she does.
HUMBERT: So, you just happened to be in Washington, D.C., with her
and happened to be leaving in the same car as her? Sir, we‘re literally
less than 12 hours away from a special session that‘s going to decide
almost $1 billion in cuts and here you‘re with a woman who‘s not your wife.
GIBBONS: You‘re full of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You are. You really
are. All you‘re doing is out here late at night trying to make a scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Ta-da! That is what Nevada Governor Jim Gibbons is most
famous for outside of Nevada.
Could you guys make the teleprompter go back to the script that I‘m
actually talking in? Thank you very much.
All right.
Awesome. Very good. Moving along here. Thank you very much.
Cheers.
With the tea partiers converging on Searchlight, Nevada, tomorrow,
Governor Jim Gibbons is trying to get famous for something other than that
video that you just saw. Governor Jim Gibbons has asked his state‘s
attorney general to sue the government over health reform. His attorney
general is a Democrat named Catherine Cortez Masto. She said she wants to
look in to the matter first and she says she is conducting a thorough legal
analysis.
But Governor Gibbons is seemingly unperturbed by his attorney
general‘s desire to do real legal analysis before filing a lawsuit. He‘s
now demanding an answer from his attorney general by early next week.
As we discussed on last night‘s show, these lawsuits are scams. They
are political gamesmanship. They are not even designed to change policy.
They‘re aimed at creating political effect.
For example, as Igor Volsky from the Center for American Progress
noted today, quote, “I‘m no lawyer, but the fact that the suit doesn‘t
contain any references to past Supreme Court decisions or legal precedent
suggests that it‘s frivolous.”
How frivolous can it be, though, if you can make money off it and rile
up gullible people who don‘t realize that you are scamming them?
Same goes for the “repeal health reform” effort. The Republicans have
been pledging to fight to repeal health reform, even though they know
that‘s not a practical or even feasible strategy. Here for example is what
Republican Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona had to say about the repeal strategy
this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON KYL ®, ARIZONA: Our view is that we should repeal and
replace the bill with the solutions that we think actually work.
Obviously, the president will not sign a repeal bill that the Congress
passes, so that‘s more of a symbol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: More of a symbol. In other words, that thing we‘re promising
to do, it‘s really more of a thing we can‘t do.
Here‘s another dose of intellectual honesty on the repeal strategy
courtesy of former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH ®, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: All you have to do is be
politically honest. If the Republicans win a majority in the House and
Senate next year, they will not be able to repeal the bill, the president
would veto it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Ta-da! Republicans essentially admitting the repeal strategy
is a scam. Which means if they‘re asking you for money in order to pursue
their repeal strategy, if they‘re asking for your vote to aid them in their
effort to repeal health reform, it‘s not because even they believe they
actually can repeal health reform. They know they can‘t. It is just a
strategy that is designed to separate fools from their money.
Here‘s, though, what they didn‘t see coming. Before health reform
passed, Republicans thought this was going to be a great issue for them.
They thought this is what they wanted the 2010 election to be all about—
about how against health reform they are.
So, they committed themselves to the anti-health reform platform.
They got behind the “overturn reform” lawsuits. They started talking about
repealing health reform. They said they‘d be running on repealing health
reform and how illegal health reform was all the way through November.
But then health reform passed—and lo and behold, everything
changed. Democrats won on this one. Republicans lost on this one.
And now, campaigning to repeal health reform means campaigning to
reverse lots of sweeping pro-consumer reforms to the insurance industry—
which is becoming a little bit of a political problem. For example, do you
want to see the repeal health reform campaign strategy in action in all of
its problematic glory? This is Republican Congressman Mark Kirk of
Illinois. He‘s running for President Obama‘s old Senate seat.
“The Chicago Tribune” recently obtained an audiotape of Congressman
Kirk vowing to a local Republican audience to lead the effort to repeal
health reform. That audio is appearing now in ads produced by Mr. Kirk‘s
Democratic opponent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FOR SUBSCRIBERSA harrowing ordeal aboard an Israel-bound plane
FOR SUBSCRIBERSThe debate over AI’s future rages on both coasts
FOR SUBSCRIBERSA harrowing ordeal aboard an Israel-bound plane
FOR SUBSCRIBERSThe debate over AI’s future rages on both coasts
REP. MARK KIRK ®, ILLINOIS: As your senator, I would lead the
effort, if it passes, to repeal this bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: The ad kind of dares Congressman Kirk to say that in public,
to really and truly campaign on repealing health reform. It points out
that Congressman Kirk, in voting against health reform—in the first
place, voted against major insurance industry reform.
In other words, really, Mark Kirk, you want to lead the effort to
restore the insurance industry‘s right to deny coverage to kids who have
preexisting conditions? You want to lead the fight to demand that seniors
have a donut hole in their prescription drug coverage so they can‘t afford
their drugs? That‘s what you‘re going to campaign on?
Unfortunately for the Republican Party, this is the strategy they have
locked themselves into.
But admit it. It did make you forget who was in Jim Gibbons‘ car for
a second there, didn‘t it? Just for a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: So this afternoon, we were having our news meeting for the
show, like we do every day at lunchtime-ish. And while we were meeting,
Richard Engel came by. Now, Richard is a world traveler. Literally,
that‘s his job as NBC‘s chief foreign correspondent.
So it‘s always nice to see Richard here at the office and we all
said, “Hi, Richard. It‘s great to see you. But then he didn‘t leave. He
was just hanging around while we kept going on with the meeting.
I was like, “Richard, do you want to add something to the meeting
here?” And he said, “Yes. Let me tell you what just happened in Iraq.
There‘s this huge deal that just happened.”
And so he starts talking to all of us about this huge deal. And
I notice his hand is twitching while he‘s talking. So I give Richard the
pen for the white board and he proceeds to diagram the huge deal that just
happened in Iraq and what it means for the thousands of Americans who are
still in Iraq right now and what‘s going to happen next.
He finishes up - this is our news meeting today. We‘re all
totally impressed and I said, “Man, I wish you could do exactly that on the
show tonight. Everybody who watches our show should just see what you just
showed us. That was so amazing.”
And so we make it so - NBC‘s chief foreign correspondent, Richard
Engel. Richard, thank you for hijacking the meeting today.
RICHARD ENGEL, NBC CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: This is the reward
for hijacking the meeting.
MADDOW: Thank you for doing this.
ENGEL: I‘m sorry. It is really important what happened today.
MADDOW: I want you to just explain the whole thing again. I just
want you to go and do it.
ENGEL: OK. So today, they announced the election results of the
election in Iraq. A very, very important election, game-changing, probably
the most important thing that happened in Iraq the last several years.
So to understand what happened today and who is at stake, there
are four main players. And I think you can see, right now, these are the
four main players. This is how I put them on your whiteboard today.
MADDOW: Without the pictures.
ENGEL: Without the pictures.
MADDOW: You‘re not that good.
ENGEL: Yes, exactly. Ayad Allawi. He is a Shiite. Oops. That‘s
not (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MADDOW: He‘s on fire.
ENGEL: He‘s not on fire. He is a Shiite.
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: He is secular. That‘s probably the most important thing to
understand him. So let‘s put that - secular. He is secular and he is
anti-Iran, right? I‘m left-handed so it‘s hard to write on these things if
you touch the screen.
MADDOW: OK. So he‘s contra-Iran.
ENGEL: So he‘s contra-Iran. So I‘ll make that Shiite, secular, anti-
Iran.
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: Maliki bloc. Maliki is the government. He is the current
prime minister, so he has all of the power of the government behind him.
He is also from a Shiite religious party called the Dawa Party that has had
very close relationships with Iran in the past. So it is more of Iran
leaning Islamic party and that has become the party of the state.
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: Then you have a more hard line Islamist bloc and that is
Muqtada al-Sadr and another Hakim family, and that is very close to Iran.
That is Iran with a capital - why is it doing this? Iran with a capital -
Iran with a capital I.
MADDOW: OK. And Muqtada al-Sadr is actually living in Iran right
now.
ENGEL: He is in Iran right now.
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: So you have the government bloc and then you have the - let‘s
call it the secular bloc to make it really simple.
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: And he also has the - an alliance with all of the Sunnis.
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: Sorry, things keep coming away here. It‘s easier on a regular
whiteboard.
MADDOW: Yes. It‘s all right. This is cool.
ENGEL: So you have a secular party with Sunni in it.
MADDOW: With Sunni in it.
ENGEL: You have the government party that is basically a - also has
close ties to Iran. Then you have an Iranian Islamic Shiite party, Shiite
bloc, under Muqtada al-Sadr.
And then, you have the Kurdish bloc. They‘re just Kurds, just
state Kurds. They do their own thing. They‘ve established their own state
effectively in northern Iraq. And so that‘s the political landscape, the
four different -
MADDOW: So there‘s a lot of tiny little parties, but those are the
four main - those are the four blocs that are running?
ENGEL: Four other parties - there‘s other Kurdish parties but these
are the four main ones. So what happened today?
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: This is the landscape. Today, we saw that Ayad Allawi came
out just by a tiny little bit. He emerged in the poll position first.
MADDOW: First.
ENGEL: He was tied with Maliki. And Maliki is disputing the results
of the elections. He says that he should have been first. Now, none of
them get a majority. None of them have an outright majority so they‘re
going to have to group together. Form a coalition government -
MADDOW: Form a coalition in order to figure out who runs the
government, right?
ENGEL: Why is it important - who‘s first? The important thing is the
person who is first, who has the most votes gets the first opportunity to
form a government, right? So if Maliki had gone first, and let‘s just
assume that Maliki had won and there was a lot of momentum in his way and a
lot of people suggested, and Maliki certainly believes that he should have
been number one.
What would have happened most likely is that Maliki would have formed
a coalition with the other three, and kept Allawi‘s bloc out.
MADDOW: And that means there are no - that means Sunnis?
ENGEL: There are no Sunnis and no secular people in the government.
MADDOW: OK.
ENGEL: Kurds are secular, but think of them as a Kurdish party
serving Kurdish interests. They‘re really interested in Kurdistan and the
rest can go its own way.
That, I think, could have led to increased instability. And a
lot of political analysts thought there could have even been war. Because
if you‘re from a Sunni‘s perspective, you would have looked at this
government and you would have said - oh.
MADDOW: There‘s no place for me.
ENGEL: There‘s no place for me.
MADDOW: Yes.
ENGEL: Yet again, this is another Kurdish government. It is another
Shiite government. It is another Iran-leaning government, and I‘m out.
Instead, something potentially revolutionary happened.
You had the - I‘ll put it in a different color here. You had
Allawi coming in as number one, and he will probably form a coalition with
the Islamic group and with the Kurdish group and keep Maliki out. But he,
Allawi, by being number one, will be the prime minister.
MADDOW: And then you end up with a diverse - a diverse coalition
where everybody feels like they‘ve got some representation. You‘ve got
Sunnis. You‘ve got the religious Shiites arrive in Iran. You‘ve got
secular Shiites. And you‘ve got the Kurds.
ENGEL: Exactly.
MADDOW: So it‘s a recipe for more stability.
ENGEL: It‘s a secular government, first and foremost -
MADDOW: Yes.
ENGEL: Even though you have the Islamist part of it. It is primarily
a secular government. It includes the Sunnis, and it is much more
American-leaning. Allawi, in general, leans toward Washington.
The other parties lean toward Iran. So it is a radically
different thing. Because right now, the government that‘s in power and
that has been in power for the last several years has been a pretty
religious, pretty Iran-leaning government that excluded the Shiites -
excluded the Sunnis, rather.
And now, you‘re going to have a different kind of a government,
includes the Sunnis, secular, leaning toward the U.S.
MADDOW: Briefly, how long will it take for us to know if he‘s able to
form this coalition?
ENGEL: Well, there is a major dispute right now. And the - Maliki,
the current prime minister, who is still prime minister until a new
government is formed, is rejecting the findings of this - the results of
this election.
He says he won‘t accept them. He has 13 days to dispute it.
Allawi says already, in this coming week, he‘s going to start forming a
government. So if this period of disputes can get past and the election
results get certified, then it‘s up to Allawi to form a government.
MADDOW: Wow, thank you for helping us -
ENGEL: And it could be a very big deal -
MADDOW: It could be a huge deal.
ENGEL: Potentially the best news for the U.S. troops who need this to
work in order to leave.
MADDOW: Yes. If we‘re looking at opening up another can of worms and
another civil war, then U.S. troops probably have no hope of leaving. If
we‘re looking at stability, they can come home. Richard -
ENGEL: It‘s all recreated. I have a few teleprompter problems.
MADDOW: We‘ll get you better pens. It‘s great to see you.
ENGEL: Great to see you, Rachel.
MADDOW: Thank you, Richard. Thank you so much. That was so cool.
Richard Engel is NBC‘s chief foreign correspondent and our chief
illustrator.
ENGEL: I need some training.
MADDOW: You‘re the only one we‘ve got. You don‘t have any
competition. I have said on the TV machine, I have told reporters and now,
I‘ve taken out a full-page ad in “The Boston Globe” all to say I am not
running for Scott Brown‘s Senate seat in Massachusetts.
I kind of can‘t believe I‘m saying this but Scott Brown
apparently does not believe it still. He is still fake running against me
as of today to try to raise money off of my name today. I think I may need
some professional help here. That is coming up in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: Within five minutes of President Obama signing the health
reform bill on Tuesday, within five minutes of him finishing signing that
legislation, stuntmen from the office of Virginia‘s new attorney general
raced to the federal courthouse in Richmond to start the process of suing
to stop health reform.
Five minutes, they were ready to go. Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell
and Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli are doing everything they can
to make themselves the most famous hard-right conservative state government
in the country right now.
The five minutes after the bill signing, race to the courthouse
on health reform, rescinding the state‘s non-discrimination policy and
overtly telling all Virginia‘s colleges to rescind their policies too. The
attorney general giving interviews talking about how detrimental the gays
are to American society.
The governor, having written his master‘s thesis on how state
government should oppose fornicators - what will Gov. Bob McDonnell and
Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli try next?
Nobody knows of course. But this week the “New York Times”
reminded us of a cause that the attorney general alluded to on the campaign
trail that he hasn‘t yet pursued in office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN CUCCINELLI, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF VIRGINIA: You know, we‘re going
to have our seventh child on Monday, if it‘s not born before. And for the
very concerns you state, we‘re actually considering.
And as I‘m sure many of you here didn‘t get a social security
number when you were born - they do it now. But we‘re considering not
doing that. And a lot of people are considering that now because it is
being used to track you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Your social security number is being used to track you. Will
Bob McDonnell and Ken Cuccinelli be able to save Virginia from this
terrible conspiracy of the social security number tracking device?
If they decide to take on this threat, you will hear it here
first. Well, second. I mean, these things usually come through first via
the transmissions that the CIA and aliens send us all through our dental
fillings. Well, want to wear the hats?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: Hal Sparks joins us here on set in just a moment to advise me
on how I can, once and for all, convince Sen. Scott Brown that I am not
running for his Senate seat. Apparently, the ad we took out in today‘s
“Boston Globe” didn‘t even do the trick. We spent a lot of money on it,
too. That‘s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: So I have a problem. Sen. Scott Brown does not understand
me. The new Republican senator from Massachusetts is using me to raise
money for himself by spreading a totally made-up story that the Democratic
party of Massachusetts tried to recruit me to run against him for Senate in
2012.
It never happened. Honestly, I‘m not running. They never asked
me to run. Never, not, didn‘t. Without even bothering to vet this rumor,
Mr. Brown decided to run with it, to try to scare people who don‘t know
better, I guess, into giving him money to fight the big horrible far-left
liberal on the TV machine.
After he did the fundraising letter, I categorically and
truthfully denied that I was ever approached by anyone to run for anything.
I did that on TV. I tried to do a robocall to Massachusetts voters
debunking the rumor.
No joke - I really was going to do it as a robocall, but it
turned out to be against MSNBC rules. After I did that, Scott Brown did an
interview where he still said I was running against him. He said, bring
her on.
Quite exasperated at this point, I decided to write a full-page
ad in the “Boston Globe,” an ad that says, “I‘m not running against Scott
Brown. I never said I was running against Scott Brown. The Massachusetts
Democratic Party never asked me to run against Scott Brown. Honestly. I
swear. No. Really.”
He‘s still doesn‘t believe me. Or maybe he believes me but he‘s
still trying to get away with telling people that I am running. Even after
this, he‘s still doing it.
In a statement to the “Boston Globe,” “The Boston Herald” and
“CBS News,” Brown‘s adviser, Eric Fehrnstrom, said this today. He said,
quote, “It was an open secret that the Democrats were trying to recruit
Rachel Maddow to run against Scott Brown in 2012.”
OK, it was so secret it was secret both from me and from the
Massachusetts Democratic Party. I want Scott Brown to stop telling people
I‘m running against him. I want him to stop telling people the Democrats
have tried to get me to run against him.
I want him to stop raising money off these lies that he keeps
about me and Massachusetts Democrats. I want him to retract this
fundraising letter.
But A, he won‘t return my calls, four straight days now of
calling. And B, I‘m getting worried that maybe it‘s me. Maybe he just
doesn‘t understand when I am doing the speaking about this. Maybe he just
doesn‘t get it. How do I get through to him? How can I more effectively
not run against Scott Brown?
Joining me now is a special guest, un-campaign strategist, my
friend, Hal Sparks. Hal, thank you for helping me.
HAL SPARKS, UN-CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: Oh, my pleasure. This is
something I relish.
MADDOW: How can I convince Scott Brown that not only am I not running
against him, I never was. What am I doing wrong?
SPARKS: Well, first of all, you‘re speaking too much. Bur first -
OK. We have to break this down. This is simple. First of all, don‘t do
any major interviews and do a total media blackout. I would advise against
even doing your own show for a while. I know it‘s hard -
MADDOW: Yes.
SPARKS: But whatever you do, don‘t take out any more full-page ads.
MADDOW: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
SPARKS: Yes. That‘s classic denial, “I‘m not running,” meaning
you‘re actually seeking money right now. That‘s a fundraising tool right
there.
MADDOW: You know what? Great. Send me money.
SPARKS: And thirdly, you live in the state of Massachusetts.
MADDOW: Yes.
SPARKS: What kind of vehicle do you drive?
MADDOW: I have a pickup truck.
SPARKS: Yes, you can‘t drive your pickup truck anymore. That‘s - I
mean, you are slowly but surely becoming not only the candidate that Scott
Brown wants to be.
I‘m going to go out on a limb and say that you‘re the woman Scott
Brown wants to be at this point. You have to know you‘re like the bizarro
Scott Brown at this point and you are everything he fears. So -
MADDOW: I don‘t think he wants to be me. Maybe I‘m just not stating
my message clearly. I mean, maybe I just talk too much. That‘s
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
SPARKS: Clarity is a problem with you. You are overtly clear in what
you say, and that does not work in campaigns and certainly doesn‘t work
with the GOP.
You speak in technical terms, “mumbo jumbo.” So many big words.
You can‘t do that anymore. You have to come up with something shorter,
something that can be on a button, something like, “No, I won‘t,” the
opposite of “Yes, we can.”
MADDOW: OK.
SPARKS: You know, with the kind of button that say, “No, I won‘t.”
MADDOW: No, I won‘t.
SPARKS: So every time you go, “You think I‘m going to run against
Scott Brown in 2012? No, I won‘t.” And we just keep - you know, we ham it
out and I‘ll make a Will.I.am video of it, where I kind of just -
MADDOW: I can get people to chant it, “No, I won‘t.”
SPARKS: Yes.
MADDOW: No, I won‘t.
SPARKS: Yes. And I‘ll do that whole read like that, standing in the
background in black and white and overlay it. It would be beautiful.
Trust me. It‘s an ad we‘re going to run.
And then, of course, there is a language barrier that you have
that you have to deal with. You are speaking English and they are speaking
GOP. When you say no to the party of no, that‘s actually a yes, that‘s a
double negative.
You actually create a positive in their head and then you can‘t -
but you can say, “Well, with OK. Then yes, I am running, because then
you‘re kind of like O‘Brien(ph), “Yes, I am the messiah,” and then you‘re
stuck again. So talking is out. We need symbols and simplicity.
MADDOW: OK. Could I just do like a big -
SPARKS: No. Then they‘re now running on, “Rachel Maddow is coming
for Scott Brown. She thinks his policies of keeping America the best in
the world are loser policies.” And they‘ll make your friends their
enemies.
MADDOW: Hell, no. Hell, no.
SPARKS: Yes.
MADDOW: How do I get him to stop fundraising on my name?
SPARKS: Well, I‘ve come up with a couple of ways.
MADDOW: OK.
SPARKS: The first is divert attention. We need to find another
person that he can worry about more than you.
MADDOW: That‘s a good idea.
SPARKS: Yes. Another famous Massachusetts star. I‘ve narrowed my
field down to three people - Barbara Walters, born in Massachusetts - Dane
Cook, and Leonard Nimoy. These are my three kind of favorites.
MADDOW: Oh, OK>
SPARKS: Barbara Walters - too close, female journalist. Might be a
problem. Dane cook is actually running for king right now. I don‘t know
that - you know, you‘re going to have to run.
So I‘ve boiled it down to Leonard Nimoy. And what we‘re going to
do is we‘re going leak a memo from the - a forged memo from the Democratic
Senatorial Committee.
MADDOW: Oh, nice.
SPARKS: Like that. I just created. This one says, “Dear Mr. Nimoy,
if you would like to run against Scott, please check this box.” Yes, and
then, we‘ll put a little check in this. “Thanks, your pal, the Democratic
Party. P.S., we hate America, FYI.” And they‘ll run with this. This will
be on “Drudge” for weeks before they ever look -
MADDOW: That will free me.
SPARKS: Yes.
MADDOW: That will free me from the tyranny of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
SPARKS: And the last tip - and if that doesn‘t work, I can endorse
your campaign and that will end it right there.
MADDOW: Hal Sparks - I‘ll do anything that you told me to do.
SPARKS: I think that‘s wise. Yes.
MADDOW: I‘ll circulate this right away.
SPARKS: Absolutely.
MADDOW: Thank you. Hal Sparks is our un-campaign strategist. His
Showtime special, “Charmageddon,” airs this June. Hal, thank you very
much. I appreciate it.
SPARKS: Absolutely.
MADDOW: Up next, one of the greatest moments on live television ever
happened right here on MSNBC. I can‘t believe nobody has picked up on
this. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: That used to be the greatest sneeze ever caught on camera.
Used to be. Until 5:48 p.m. Eastern Time yesterday, when this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST, “HARDBALL”: We‘re back. There‘s a conservative
battle unfolding in reliably conservative Utah. Republican U.S. Senator
Bob Bennett is fighting to keep his job despite tough opposition in the
state‘s nominating caucuses that started - that started on Tuesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: OK. For a decade I have lived in fear of sneezing on the
air, ever since my very first gig in radio. I am not lying when I tell
you, I think about it every single day that I‘m on the air.
It has never happened, I have never sneezed on the air, but every
day I worry about it. What do I do if it happens? But then it happened -
it never happens to anybody, and it happened to my friend, Chris Matthews,
and he handled it perfectly.
He just sneezed and sort of smiled and kept going. I could never
have done that. And it turns out we have investigated it and it turns out
that Chris knew what might be coming. We have exclusive footage here.
Chris tried to avoid sneezing by getting that sneeze out of the
way in the commercial break before coming back on air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine, eight, seven - here we go. In five. Bless
you. Three, two -
MATTHEWS: We‘re back. There‘s a conservative battle unfolding in
reliably conservative Utah -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: First, the floor director, bless you, and then keeps with the
countdown. And then he just - he sneezes. Then once the live show was
over, the director of “HARDBALL” gets into Chris‘ ear, starts talking in
his ear piece to make a little request.
MATTHEWS: Yes, sir. I understand. I am ready. You want to un-
sneeze me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Un-sneeze me. What does that mean? Here‘s what they did if
you only caught the 7:00 p.m. re-air of “HARDBALL” last night, this is what
you saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: We‘re back. There‘s a conservative battle unfolding in
conservative reliable Utah. Republican U.S. Senator Bob Bennett is
fighting to keep his job despite tough opposition in the state‘s nominating
caucuses that started on Tuesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Chris Matthews - total legend. And now, a lifelong
inspiration to all of us on air sneeze-phobics. There‘s nothing more to
say here except, Chris, God bless you.
That does it for us tonight. We‘ll see you again Monday night.
Have a great weekend.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END
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