Guests: Ed Schultz, Mark Miller, Glenn Grothman, John Matthews, Margaret Carlson, Jackie Speier
LAWRENCE O‘DONNELL, HOST: Tonight, the governor of Wisconsin remains defiant, so do the protesters. The fights over the rights of state workers may be only the first of many across America.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
JOHN YANG, NBC NEWS: “State of Chaos.”
REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: There come a time when people cannot take it any more.
THOMAS ROBERTS, MSNBC ANCHOR: Where the heck are these guys?
GOV. SCOTT WALKER ®, WISCONSIN: They need to show up and do the job they were paid to do.
O‘DONNELL (voice-over): Wisconsin‘s Democratic state senators still in hiding.
WALKER: Have the guts to show up and do your job. Don‘t hide out in another state.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rotunda is filled.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS: Mr. Senator, I suppose you‘re not going to tell us where you are. Are you still in an undisclosed location?
TAMRON HALL, MSNBC ANCHOR: Are you prepared to stay out for weeks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only option we had was to slow things down.
WALKER: Hiding out in another state is not a way for democracy to operate.
O‘DONNELL: Now with dozens of schools closed, the protests reach night four and the divide remains firmly on party lines.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is about being right, the fundamental right to be able to collectively bargain their contract.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of budget problems are caused by the most generous public employee pension system in the country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the president said, this really is an assault on the union.
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN ®, MINNESOTA: President Reagan fired air traffic controllers. We‘re now on day three of Wisconsin teachers leaving their post.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a point at which you begin to demonize public employees.
O‘DONNELL: Wisconsin is the first battle ground, but it won‘t be the last.
UNIDDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are fears it could spread to many other money-strapped states.
YANG: Ohio is next to consider a plan like this.
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: And maybe the biggest political story of the next two years has been ignited in Wisconsin.
ED SCHULTZ, “THE ED SHOW” HOST: We are seeing the narrative for 2012 develop. It‘s going to be the wage earners of America pushing back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O‘DONNELL: Good evening.
After five weeks on the job and four days of massive protests at the capitol, Republican governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker, refused to compromise in any way on his so-called “budget repair bill.”
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: We are not going to allow one minute the protesters to feel like they can drown out the voices of those millions of taxpayers all across the state of Wisconsin. When I was at manufacturing plants talking to blue collar workers across the state earlier this week, it reinforced to me that in many of those cases, they‘re paying anywhere from 25 percent to 50 percent of their health care costs. Most don‘t have pensions and those that have 401(k)s, many of them have seen that the contributions from their employer has been suspended in the last two—in the last year or two, I should say, as the economy has made it difficult in order to preserve jobs. That is in contrast to the very modest requests we‘re asking for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: The protests against Walker and his plan grew increasingly partisan today, not just in Madison but across the country.
Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi joined the anti-Walker chorus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Wisconsin‘s workers, teachers, and public servants must have a seat at the table to fight for good wages and a safe workplace. I stand in solidarity with Wisconsin workers fighting for their rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: The governor had a message for those he feels are interfering with Wisconsin politics, including President Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: We are focused on balancing our budget. It would be wise for the president and others in Washington to focus on balancing their budget, which they‘re a long ways from doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Republican legislative progress on this bill has been effectively blocked by Wisconsin Senate Democrats, all of whom who have gone into hiding so that the Senate cannot achieve a quorum to vote on the bill.
Joining me now from an undisclosed location, Wisconsin Senate minority leader, Democrat Mark Miller, and in a television first, he is joined by Republican State Senator Glenn Grothman.
Senators, thank you very much for joining us.
First of all, Senator Miller, state troopers as you know were looking for you at your house today. This is serious. They want you back in the capitol.
Here is what Scott Walker had to say about you and your colleagues leaving the state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: We can‘t cross state lines. From our standpoint, we‘re hoping to make a rational appeal to them that whether they agree with the bill or not, have the guts to show up and do your job. Don‘t hide out in another state. Come here and do your job, make your case, make your argument.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Senator Miller, there‘s a new poll out just today. It says that 56 percent of people of Wisconsin think that you Democrats should return to the capitol. Thirty-six percent support you. They think you‘re doing the right thing.
Can you tell the 56 percent of the people of Wisconsin why they‘re wrong?
ST. SEN. MARK MILLER (D), WISCONSIN: Well, you know, the governor failed to lead on this issue. He wanted to have the workers—the state workers to be able to be a part—or to contribute to solving the state budget crisis, and during his campaign, he said he would reach out to them, and negotiate with them. But as soon as he was elected and he had a Republican majority, the governor went back on that campaign promise and he unilaterally stripped away all the public employees‘ bargaining rights and imposed his own solution. And we‘ve heard today that the public employees reiterated their willingness to meet the governor‘s economic demands in terms of economic concessions.
And so, there is no longer any reason for this to be part of a budget bill.
O‘DONNELL: Senator Grothman, that same poll found that a majority of Wisconsin disapproves of Governor Walker‘s plan, and your plan, and as Senator Miller points out, we now have the unions willing to concede on the financials of the governor‘s plan. All that‘s left—all that‘s left in this agreement at this stage is the elements of the bill that have nothing to do with budget, nothing to do with reduction, and have entirely to do with dismantling the power of unions.
Why can‘t you compromise and see that 52 percent of Wisconsin that is opposed to the governor‘s bill means that the support is not there for what you‘re trying to do?
ST. SEN. GLENN GROTHMAN ®, WISCONSIN: If you talk to either the state government, managers of state government, or local units of government, be the school district, be the cities, be the counties—one of the things we have to do to get Wisconsin‘s fiscal house in order is make Wisconsin government more efficient. And efficient means assigning workers as to how they‘re going to work or which jobs they‘re going to do.
Right now, that‘s been subject to collective bargaining. And there are school district administrators or city administrators who‘ve been waiting literally decades to reassign their employees or tell their employees what they‘re going to do.
If we‘re going to get our fiscal house in order, you‘ve got to remember, Wisconsin has one of the worse deficits in the country.
(BOOING)
GROTHMAN: We have to be able to get management the ability to assign workers where they want. They still have collective bargaining rights. They can collectively bargain on their wages up to cost of living.
However, we cannot have employees determining how people work. We have heard the public employees. We have made concessions as far as collective bargaining is concerned. Concessions as far as grievance procedures are concerned.
But as far as making local governments or school districts efficient, if we don‘t want to layoff a lot of people, we have to give management the tools they have so frequently in the private sector.
O‘DONNELL: Senator Miller, on the kind of work rules that Senator Grothman is talking about—do you see a way that that could be negotiated within the union‘s negotiating packages with the state in terms of their unemployment? And feel free to negotiate directly with Senator Grothman right here about how you could solve the situation.
MILLER: I fundamentally disagree with Senator Grothman. He thinks that workers don‘t deserve the ability to have a say in the way that they work and the conditions of their work, employees and I used—I was the head of a company that had close to 100 employees. You get cooperation by inspiring and empowering workers and you don‘t get it by insulting them and by treating them like dirt. And that, unfortunately, is what the governor‘s bill does.
Now, the public employees offer on the fiscal issues gets the opportunity for the governor who created this mess in the first place to find an honorable solution and to accept the public employees‘ offer on the fiscal issues, and leave them in a position to where they can continue to negotiate on the other items that have been such a large part for generations of Wisconsin‘s labor tradition.
O‘DONNELL: Senator Grothman, when people say in negotiations it‘s not about the money, it usually is about the money. And there is real money involved here.
I have to tell you that one of our producers on this show is from your state, from Wisconsin. Both of her parents are state workers. One of them making about $50,000 a year, her father would have to pay an additional $5,000 for—towards his health insurance and pension, and whether that‘s in total terms a fair thing for him to pay at all, you have to admit that that is a very sudden new expense for someone who‘s making $50,000 to be suddenly hit with.
Given that, it is now—it is now no longer about the money. The unions have said they are willing to come together on the money issues. You are left with what looks like nothing but a union-bashing bill where you are trying to completely dismantle the reason for having a union.
GROTHMAN: No, no, no, no, no. These things like work rules that right now are negotiated are big money issues. If you want to make sure we layoff a minimum number of employees, and things like the disabled—the handicap suffer the least cuts possible in the upcoming budget—you need to give management the ability to control their employees.
We respect the employees. I think if you look over time, there‘s been a lot more respect for the employees shown by Republicans and the Democrats over a period of time. However, you have to give management the ability to deploy their—to deploy their employees as efficiently as possible.
(CROSSTALK)
O‘DONNELL: Senator Grothman, given that a majority of Wisconsin is opposed to the plan you‘re trying to push through, isn‘t this exactly the moment where you‘ve achieved what you want to achieve in terms of a financial element of what you‘re trying to do? Isn‘t this exactly the moment where any reasonable person in government would turn to Senator Miller and say, “Senator, this is our compromise offer”? Senator Grothman, what is your compromise offer to Senator Miller?
GROTHMAN: Well, first of all, I don‘t have the authority to reach a deal here tonight. When I talk to my constituents back home and explain exactly what we‘re doing, I think almost every one of them, except for the hardcore members of the unions themselves, agree that Governor Walker‘s proposal is very reasonable.
O‘DONNELL: Senator Miller—
MILLER: Glenn, Glenn, what people agree with are the fiscal issues. They do not agree with destroying the ability of workers to negotiate workplace conditions and wages. So, you‘re entirely wrong with that. You have not explained the full story.
O‘DONNELL: Senator Miller, what can get you to return to Wisconsin?
MILLER: If the governor accepts the union‘s proposal by saying all right, the fiscal conditions—the fiscal requirements that I laid out, that are required from the state employees in order to balance the budget are met, then there‘s—then I‘m willing to go forward and accept that proposal.
It‘s time for him to lead. He put the state in this box with proposing the union-busting, and doing it without negotiation. If he had come to the unions at the beginning and done this like we have done for years in the past and asked the unions to be part of the solution, asked the workers to be part of the solution—ask them, they would have responded.
They did last year when we had twice as bad budget deficit. They gave
they had 3 percent salary reduction through furloughs. They would have stepped up to the plate again.
O‘DONNELL: Senator Grothman, the governor cannot—faced reporters today and took very few questions. You can always tell how confident a politician is by how long he is willing to stay in front of reporters taking questions. And, by the way, Senator, I‘m impressed with your willingness to come here and discus this frankly an openly, something that the governor doesn‘t seem willing to do.
He very specifically ducked the question in his news conference about why he is now seeking nothing but the dismantling of the unions. He tried to keep the focus on the money. We‘ve just heard what Senator Miller had to say about the money. There‘s obviously room for agreement on the money issues, but the governor very specifically ducked the question about union-busting.
What is the governor afraid of in actually addressing the truth about what he is trying to do to unions?
GROTHMAN: I think the governor was very honest. I heard his interview. When you talk about busting unions—
(BOOS)
GROTHMAN: -- what he‘s asking is more authority to the county executives like Scott Walker himself was, or the school administrators, or the mayors to manage what their workers are going to do. And you cannot operate an efficient city or good school district when the unions are in essence determining what can be done.
O‘DONNELL: Senator Grothman, I want to thank you very much for joining us tonight, especially from that camera position where some people are trying to drown out what you say. I can tell you that our microphones I think delivered pretty much everything you had to say to our audience tonight. Senator Grothman, thank you very much for joining us.
And Democrat, Mark Miller, thank you very much for joining us. I hope you can get back to Wisconsin soon.
MILLER: Thank you. I do, too.
GROTHMAN: Thank you.
O‘DONNELL: Joining us now, the host of MSNBC‘s “THE ED SHOW,” Ed Schultz, from Madison, Wisconsin.
Ed, this is really your doing this week. We have developed news this week because of what you drove. I remember vividly you earlier in this week on this network saying we‘ve heard nothing from Nancy Pelosi, nothing. I just got to run a video of what Nancy Pelosi had to say, provoked by you, Ed.
Ed, what is the feeling today? We‘ve seen as you reported earlier today, the first report of this very large concession by the unions, saying they are willing to go in the governor‘s direction on the financials of this. They just need to be able to preserve their union‘s very existence. Does it feel like there is some possibility of a compromise next week?
SCHULTZ: Well, it was a genuine approach, Lawrence. There‘s no question about it.
The gentleman‘s name is Marty Beil. He is the Wisconsin state employee union head. They represent 23,000 employees in the state. Now, they put a proposal on the table to the governor today, and the governor came out in a press conference forum and flat out rejected it. And actually made fun of them for wanting to come to the table and negotiate.
They were willing to step up and say, OK, let‘s do the money thing. You get the money thing, Governor, but collective bargaining has got to be off the table. And the governor proved today to these protesters, that it‘s not about the money. It‘s about breaking down the unions.
And I have to take issue with what Senator Grothman says. He says it‘s about the work rules. All of those things are negotiated and that‘s all the employees want of this state.
Now, the total number of employees this would affect in the state would be 175,000. Now, I don‘t know for sure how many of those other employees outside the 23,000 would go along and say, yes, we‘ll take this deal. But this was an olive branch that was put out, to smoke this governor out, to prove that it‘s not about the money. It is about collective bargaining.
So, I don‘t know how long this will last. These people have got tremendous resolve. Don‘t care how cold it gets, they don‘t care how long they have to wait. They are determined to see it through, because they realize now that this is all big—part of a bigger picture in the United States, and this is all about 2012 at this point.
And the fact that the Tea Partiers are going to be here tomorrow in full force, which is going to be organized out of the organization from Virginia, although there will be local Tea Partiers here, just underscores how this is going to escalate as far as passion is concerned. But these folks are not going to give up.
O‘DONNELL: Ed, doesn‘t the Tea Party invasion, indicate that there is something national going on here, that this is a national Republican movement? This is not about looking at Wisconsin state workers exclusively?
SCHULTZ: Absolutely, Lawrence, and it‘s just taken awhile for this to unfold so the scab can be peeled off the wound that‘s hitting American workers right now. This is happening in so many states, and this story is going to be the focal point for 2012. Do you stand with workers? Do you stand with wage earners?
And we all know that even people that aren‘t in unions and aren‘t involved in collective bargaining, their wages are often set and their work conditions are often set by what union negotiators come up with. So where the senator tonight says this is all about the budget and it‘s all about fixing the financial picture of Wisconsin—the governor hasn‘t asked the question—answered the question why did you give out $117 million worth of tax breaks as soon as you got into office? I mean, it is just so hypocritical, and he doesn‘t answer that question.
But I will give this governor a tremendous amount of credit. He is smooth. He is smooth. He knows how to communicate. And this may be the next generation of the good communicators of the Republican Tea Party because there‘s no question that when he gets in front of a camera, he knows how to sell and sell hard.
But, the fact is, you still have Democrats who are across the border that know the reality of that these workers, these protesters and the 175 workers in the state are going to be affected by it if they come back without conditions. So, who knows how it‘s going to end up.
O‘DONNELL: Ed, we heard Mark Miller say he is willing to agree with the governor on the financials of this. And so, it is no longer about the money.
But before we go, I do want to concentrate on the money for one final minute. I was on the phone today with the Wisconsin state worker who makes about $50,000 a year. His costs would go up $5,000 a year. Ten percent of his gross income would suddenly be going in a different direction where it hasn‘t had to go before.
Now, leaving aside the total picture of what the economic justice of that is, for anyone to have to suddenly push 10 percent of their income in the direction where they didn‘t have to do it before is a serious burden.
And if it‘s going to happen, if government has to do that, which we haven‘t
demonstrated this government has to—but if it has to, it should be done
on a more gradual basis. That should be spread over five years so that a -
so that a worker can adjust to that kind of change in their income, shouldn‘t it?
SCHULTZ: Absolutely, Lawrence. And that‘s the key issue, economic fairness. There is not equal sharing in this burden, if there is a financial burden here in Wisconsin. The governor is trying—and the Republican Party, the majority, they are trying to take it from middle class Americans and leaving the rich folks here in Wisconsin all alone.
O‘DONNELL: Ed Schultz, thank you very much for joining us. We will all be watching you doing a special edition of “THE ED SHOW” tonight at 10:00 p.m., live from Wisconsin. Thanks, Ed.
(CHEERS)
SCHULTZ: Thank you, Lawrence.
Coming up: how the situation in Wisconsin went from a plan on the governor‘s desk to massive protests at the capitol. We will talk to a Wisconsin union official who helped launch the Wisconsin protests.
And the House voted today to support the amendment from Congressman Mike Pence that strips Planned Parenthood of funding. We‘ll have an exclusive interview with Congresswoman Jackie Speier, who in a dramatic floor speech late last night revealed her own sad experience with ending a pregnancy that brought the House floor to a standstill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JACKIE SPEIER (D), CALIFORNIA: For you to stand on this floor and to suggest as you have that somehow this is a procedure that is either welcomed or done cavalierly or done without any thought is preposterous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Coming up: the school district in Madison, Wisconsin, is asking the court to compel teachers to stop the protests and get back to work. We‘ll talk with one of the local union officials, next.
FOR SUBSCRIBERSA harrowing ordeal aboard an Israel-bound plane
FOR SUBSCRIBERSThe debate over AI’s future rages on both coasts
And in Washington, we are speeding toward a government shut down exactly two weeks from tonight. So, of course, Congress is taking next week off.
FOR SUBSCRIBERSA harrowing ordeal aboard an Israel-bound plane
FOR SUBSCRIBERSThe debate over AI’s future rages on both coasts
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Late today, the Madison, Wisconsin School District asked the court for a temporary restraining order to bar teachers from taking part in further work stoppages, characterizing their absences as an illegal strike. The judge denied that request.
Teachers called in sick for the third day in a row in order to join the growing protests in opposition to Republican Governor Scott Walker‘s proposal to limit union bargaining. It was the first coordinated absence by Madison school employees in 16 years, and the school superintendent has already warned teachers who couldn‘t show proof of illness from a medical provider that they could face docked pay.
The district‘s 24,600 students haven‘t attended class since Tuesday, and many of them have joined their teachers at the capitol rallies. They are also now being joined at the rallies by supporters from the Democratic National Committee, Organizing for America, and MoveOn.org.
The largest Tea Party groups are now planning their own counter-demonstrations. Republicans continue to compare Wisconsin teachers and trash collectors to anyone but Americans.
This is John Boehner today.
“When the American people watched the people of Greece take to the streets to protest cuts to unsustainable government programs, they worried it might foreshadow events in our nation‘s distant future. But today, we see the same sort of protests on the streets of Madison, fueled by President Obama‘s own political machine.”
Joining me now is John Matthews, the executive director of Madison Teachers Inc., who urged his members to call in sick and attend rallies at the capitol. John, thank you for joining us tonight.
JOHN MATTHEWS, MADISON TEACHERS, INC.: Thank you very much.
O‘DONNELL: John, the judge said today in effect that what‘s going on is not a strike. So, because it‘s not a strike, it‘s not an illegal strike, and the judge could not then order you people to do anything, that could be revisited, depending how long this goes on.
What do you say to the other teachers in Wisconsin? Most teachers in Wisconsin are, in fact, showing up at schools and teaching classes. Are they doing the wrong thing by doing that?
MATTHEWS: Well, it would be helpful if they came down and gave us a hand. This is a lesson in civics. It‘s political action. That‘s why the judge agreed it was not a strike, agreed with our position, and denied the school district‘s petition for a temporary restraining order.
O‘DONNELL: Is there anything you and the teachers union would be willing to do to makeup lost the school days to this protest?
MATTHEWS: Well, we—well, certainly. There are a number of days that are required, 180 days of face to face instruction, a certain number of hours for secondary schools, certain number of minutes for the elementary schools. And our contract provides that we have that many days, and we have offered to the school district that we‘re willing to discuss that, like we‘re willing to discuss all the issues and try to come to some resolution on that.
O‘DONNELL: Let‘s listen to what Governor Walker said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: First off, I want to begin certainly acknowledging the thousands of people who are outside protesting, many of whom are from the state of Wisconsin, many more lately have been coming in from other parts across the country. Certainly acknowledge their right to be heard. But I particularly want to thank the 300,000-plus state and local workers from across Wisconsin who unlike those here today didn‘t skip out on work, showed up for their jobs, did their jobs the way they have done in the past, and I believe will do in the future. And that is the good, professional public servants, and we appreciate the work they continue to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: John Matthews, what‘s your response to that?
MATTHEWS: Well, it‘s just really hogwash, frankly. What we need to be able to do is sit down, talk through the issues. What he is trying to do is break the unions. We have salary schedules we negotiated. We have health insurance we have negotiated. We have transfer procedures. We have seniority rights for transfer and seniority for layoff, and all those kinds of things.
We have the ability to sit down and talk with the district about issues that happen at the work site that we disagree with. Now, a collective bargaining agreement is not one sided. A collective bargaining agreement is something that we all sat down with and other public employee unions have sat down with an employer, and we have come to agreement on what everybody thinks is best for that particular jurisdiction.
So, to turn around and put all of this on the employees is really not correct.
O‘DONNELL: John Matthews, do you agree with Marty Beil, the other union leader in Wisconsin, that you can come to agreement with the Republicans on the financial aspects of the governor‘s bill?
MATTHEWS: Well, we‘re certainly willing to talk about it. I‘m not going to concede at this point. We‘re certainly willing to talk about it. We‘ve—we‘ve had a union here almost 50 years. And I‘ve been here for 43 years.
We solved a huge number of problems over the years with the school district. You can‘t solve them what—by doing what they tried to do today, and force us to go back to work. We solve problems by sitting down one to one, and trying to resolve those issues.
O‘DONNELL: John Matthews with Madison Teachers Incorporated, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
MATTHEWS: Thank you, sir.
O‘DONNELL: With Republican demands for deep budget cuts and a March 4th deadline looming, that is two weeks from tonight, our government is headed for a shut down. That‘s ahead in the Spotlight.
And as the House debated late into the night, one lawmaker‘s attack on Planned Parenthood led another to share a tragic story about ending a pregnancy.
Congresswoman Jackie Speier joins me coming up on THE LAST WORD.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: In tonight‘s spotlight, the Congress is on a collision course with a government shutdown exactly two weeks from right now. Current funding for the government runs out on Friday, March 4th, at midnight. And unless a Republican House and a Democratic Senate can agree on a spending plan for March 5th and beyond, the federal government will grind to a halt.
With Speaker Boehner talking tougher than ever, “Politico” reporter today a high ranking aide to House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi predicted to colleagues that a government shutdown is more likely than not. This afternoon, Pelosi joined fellow Democrats in warning of dire consequences if that happens.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: The last thing that the American people need is for Congressional Republicans or Democrats to draw a line in the sand that hinders keeping the government open. Closing our government would mean our men and women in uniform wouldn‘t receiver their paychecks and veterans would lose critical benefits.
Seniors wouldn‘t receive their Social Security Checks. And essential functions, from food safety to airport security, could come to a halt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Joining me now, Margaret Carlson, columnist for “Bloomberg Mews” and Washington editor for “The Week Magazine,” and a survivor of the last government shutdown in Washington in 1995.
MARGARET CARLSON, “BLOOMBERG NEWS”: We‘re making t-shirts, Lawrence.
O‘DONNELL: Right. Margaret, I want you to listen to what Steny Hoyer had to say today. He had a warning for Republicans. Let‘s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STENY HOYER (D), DEMOCRATIC WHIP: We saw the negative consequences of that in 1995. Our Republican colleagues thought it would be politically advantageous. Hopefully they do not repeat that mistake again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: The problem for House Republicans and for Steny Hoyer is that too many House Republicans weren‘t there the last time. You have all these new people in there who are willing to go ahead and have a government shutdown, as Sarah Palin suggests they do.
What Hoyer is reminding them of is they lost the message war on government shutdown last time around and were hurt badly. Do the Republicans actually think they could win that message war this time?
CARLSON: Well, the most important person who remembers what happened last time is John Boehner. I know John Boehner. I know Newt Gingrich. John Boehner is no Newt Gingrich. He is not a revolutionary.
He doesn‘t want this to happen, no matter what he says. The freshmen, as you point out, they have no memory. Tourists on the upper deck of the red buses here know more than some of the freshmen. So they‘re willing to go for broke.
You can tell them what happened, but they think the time is different. They think they were sent here for a different reason. And the Republicans who are really cringing over this are ones who want to run for president. They don‘t want this wing of the party to be dominant when they‘re not going to ceaselessly pander to the Tea Party or to the very, very conservative members of their party, because they have to run nationally.
O‘DONNELL: Margaret, every voter, conservative, liberal, moderate, has things they don‘t like about government. Some of them have things they hate about government. But they all hate chaos. This is part of what we‘re seeing in the polling now in Wisconsin. Fifty two percent are opposed to the governor‘s plan; 52 percent is what elected the governor in the first place.
CARLSON: I know.
O‘DONNELL: So what they don‘t want is chaos. And if the Republicans are perceived as creating chaos in the Republican House, they will pay that price. And it seems to me that the Democrats are positioning the Republicans perfectly to take the blame on this.
CARLSON: Right. So, Lawrence, that is such a good point, because that cuts across party lines, which is no one really likes chaos. We are not Bahrain. We don‘t want days of rage here. And in the ‘60s, the anti-war protesters, they often lost the public relations war.
So we do not want Wisconsin to permeate the country. And if it does -
if you go to national park like Chevy Chase in Wally‘s World and it says the park is closed, people don‘t like that. By the way, thematically, Republicans can win.
But specifically, Republicans can‘t win. We don‘t want to get rid of Big Bird. And we don‘t want e. Coli because there are no more food inspections.
O‘DONNELL: You get one Army wife on a local TV station who doesn‘t have the paycheck that week and Republicans are in big trouble. Margaret Carlson, columnist for “Bloomberg News,” and Washington editor for “The Week Magazine,” thank you very much for joining us tonight.
CARLSON: Good night, Lawrence.
O‘DONNELL: After Republican Congressman Chris Smith took to the House floor last night to graphically describe abortion procedures, Congresswoman Jackie Speier stood up and shared her own painful experience with ending a pregnancy. We‘ll have an exclusive interview with Representative Speier coming up.
And the folks at “The Daily Show” think they have found a way to change the perception of Muslims in America, a new kind of “Cosby Show.” That‘s next in tonight‘s Rewrite.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Time for tonight‘s Rewrite. And tonight, it‘s my favorite kind of Rewrite, the kind where someone else does the actual rewriting. In this case, the rewrite was done by my Writers Guild of America Union brothers and sisters over at “The Daily Show,” who decided it was time to Rewrite the stereotypes many Americans have about Muslims.
They took an idea from Katie Couric and ran with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE COURIC, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: “The Cosby Show” did so much to change attitudes about African-Americans.
Maybe we need a Muslim version of “The Cosby Show.”
AASIF MANDVI, “THE DAILY SHOW”: Yes. Americans have historically turned to television to solve our most vexing social issues, from women‘s rights all the way to gay marriage.
IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, CHAIRMAN CORDOBA INITIATIVE: I felt Katie Couric‘s suggestion for a Bill Cosby style comedy show is a wonderful idea. But the shift of perceptions about Muslims will require more than just a Bill Cosby show. Bill Cosby Show would be a very important factor.
MANDVI: So also like a Muslim “Jeffersons.”
RAUF: Uh—
MANDVI: So we shot a pilot and assembled a test audience of the kind of people we would have to win over, average Americans. It was time to win some hearts and minds.
I had them right where I wanted them.
You got a D in Algebra? Why would you do that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don‘t blow up at him again.
MANDVI: Why would you say that, blow up? I would never do anything like that. This is just a very strange way to put things. Am I right?
Well, if that didn‘t win them over, I don‘t know what will.
Do you think that this show would change your attitude towards Muslims?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You got to have that closet terrorist or something. They have to keep him hidden because they don‘t want the rest of the neighborhood to know.
MANDVI: The apparently the best way for a show to combat Muslim stereotypes is to confirm Muslim stereotypes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Late last night on the House floor, something ugly happened, which then provoked something deeply moving. Representative Chris Smith, Republican of New Jersey, spent over eight minutes reading graphic descriptions of abortion procedures, every word of it irrelevant to the issue at hand, which was federal funding for Planned Parenthood, none of which is used to pay for abortions.
Nevertheless, the House voted to cut all funding to Planned Parenthood. I, for one, can‘t bear to hear what Congressman Smith had to say again. The video is available on our website. What you really must see, though, and hear is the surprising and heart felt response by California Democratic Congresswoman Jackie Speier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JACKIE SPEIER (D), CALIFORNIA: You know, I had really planned to speak about something else, but the gentleman from New Jersey has just put my stomach in knots, because I am one of those women he spoke about just now.
I had a procedure at 17 weeks, pregnant with a child that had moved from the vagina into the cervix. And that procedure that you just talk about was a procedure that I endured.
I lost a baby. For you to stand on this floor and to suggest, as you have, that somehow this is a procedure that is either welcomed or done cavalierly or done without any thought is preposterous.
To think that we are here tonight debating this issue when the American people, if they are listening, are scratching their heads and wondering what does this have to do with me getting a job? What does this have to do with reducing the deficit?
And the answer is nothing at all. There is a vendetta against Planned Parenthood. And it was played out in this room tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Joining me now, Congresswoman Jackie Speier of California.
Thank you very much for joining us tonight, congresswoman.
SPEIER: Pleasure to be with you, Lawrence.
O‘DONNELL: As I watched that exchange on the House floor—and we‘re not going to show the part of Congressman Chris Smith, what he had to say that provoked you, because I just can‘t stand watching it again. What was it like for you to sit there and listen to what he had to say?
SPEIER: Well, as I said on the floor, it was gut wrenching. I had no intentions of really going into my personal experience. But after listening to him give the just gross description of the procedure and making it seem like somehow those women that are forced for whatever reasons to have to endure that kind of a procedure—it‘s known as dilation and evacuation—that there is nothing pleasant about it. There‘s nothing joyful about it.
It is a very painful experience. It is a very sad and hollowing experience. And I remember it today as clearly as if it happened yesterday.
O‘DONNELL: This is one of the things I think that people like Congressman Smith simply do not understand, what the actual emotional psychic impact is on a woman going through a procedure like this. And it seems to me that if you had any lesson to try to teach him in your very limited time last night, that was it. But it doesn‘t feel to me like anything gets through to the men of the House of Representatives who think like Congressman Smith.
SPEIER: For many of them, it is all about a message. And they don‘t think much beyond the message. And they don‘t think about the experiences women endure when they have to go through something like an abortion, a spontaneous abortion, or an abortion because a woman can‘t carry the fetus, or because a woman has had an unintended pregnancy and can‘t take it to full term.
And I guess for a moment on the floor last night, there was a reality check for many. And I must say that the ground swell of support has been remarkable. My colleagues have been incredibly supportive. And the public has also responded very well, because there‘s a silent majority of people out there that want to make sure that family planning programs are available.
And we were supposed to be talking about family planning last night. And it devolved into yet another diatribe on abortion. And the family planning services that Planned Parenthood provides are all about very fundamental services. They do breast cancer screenings. They do cervical cancer screenings.
They provide all the various family planning options, be they birth control pills or many of the other products that are on the market. So, many women, not just pour women—many women seek out Planned Parenthood for those services.
O‘DONNELL: And we all know someone who has had to end a pregnancy using some of these kinds of methods that he was graphically describing on the floor. I don‘t think any of us know anyone who did that gleefully, which is part of what‘s implied in the way Congressman Smith said these things.
And by the way, I am very certain Congressman Smith, whether he knows it or not, knows people who have had to do this. And it may be that those people keep it secret from him, but he knows people who have had to do this. It is something that comes much more commonly than Congressman Smith understands.
SPEIER: I think that‘s true, Lawrence. I think there‘s probably other women who serve in the Congress that have had to endure this experience. I mean, in my case, it was a baby that I wanted to have. And it was a medical complication that forced me to have to go through that procedure.
But it is by no means anything you do lightly. And it is a very sad time in a woman‘s life.
O‘DONNELL: Congresswoman Jackie Speier, thank you for joining us tonight. And thank you very much for stepping forward on the House floor last night and saying what had to be said.
SPEIER: It is a privilege to serve and it‘s a privilege to speak out for America‘s women.
O‘DONNELL: You can have THE LAST WORD online at our blog, TheLastWord.MSNBC.com. You can also follow us on Facebook and follow me @Lawrence on Twitter.
That‘s tonight‘s LAST WORD. Rachel Maddow is up next. Good evening, Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Lawrence. That interview with the congresswoman from California was incredible. That tape was incredible last night. But it‘s great that you were able to get her on the air tonight. That was awesome.
O‘DONNELL: Thanks, Rachel.
MADDOW: Thanks. Thanks to you at home, as well, for joining us for the next hour.
END
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