KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: up in the air. Air traffic controllers lose contact with pilots at one of the nation's busiest airports, raising new fears about aviation safety ahead of the busy summer travel season.
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
And if we don't actually accomplish the mission that we're announcing today, you will see Newark's - not just in Newark, you'll see Newarks in other parts of the country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How safe is it to fly right now? I’ll talk to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. Plus: tariff uncertainty. The president announces the framework of a trade deal with the UK and U.S. talks begin with the Chinese. The Fed warns the global trade war could trigger a higher risk of inflation and job losses.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We don’t have to sign deals. They have to sign deals with us.
CHAIR JEROME POWELL:
Uncertainty about the path of the economy is extremely elevated.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But is President Trump already walking back his tough tariffs on China? I’ll speak to Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming. And: no regrets. Former President Biden says he believes the outcome of the 2024 race wouldn’t have changed had he dropped out earlier.
FORMER PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I don’t think it would have mattered.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What lessons have Democrats learned? I'll speak to Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Plus: an American pope. The world reacts to the new leader of the Catholic Church with Chicago roots. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Washington Managing Editor Carol Lee; Republican Strategist Matt Gorman; Neera Tanden, president for the Center for American Progress; and NBC Senior National Political Reporter Sahil Kapur. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. President Trump heads to the Middle East this week on his first official foreign trip of his second term. It comes as the U.S. announced Saturday it had brokered a ceasefire between India and Pakistan. And pressure now building for a 30 day unconditional ceasefire in Ukraine, where the leaders of France, Germany, Poland, and the UK arrived in Kyiv, threatening sanctions against Moscow.
[START TAPE]
PRIME MINISTER KEIR STARMER:
All of us here, together with the U.S., are calling Putin out. If he’s serious about this, then he has a chance to show it.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Putin says Russia is ready for direct talks with Ukraine, proposing those talks begin later this week. NBC’s Keir Simmons pressed President Putin’s spokesperson.
[START TAPE]
KEIR SIMMONS:
This is a rejection, isn’t it, of President Trump’s request for a 30-day ceasefire?
DMITRY PESKOV:
This is proposal by President Putin.
KEIR SIMMONS:
But it’s a proposal to have talks before there’s a ceasefire.
DMITRY PESKOV:
Hm?
KEIR SIMMONS:
There’s a - it’s a proposal to have talks before -
DMITRY PESKOV:
Of course.
KEIR SIMMONS:
- a lasting ceasefire.
DMITRY PESKOV:
Of course. In order - in order to find a way for the ceasefire.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The world is also watching the growing uncertainty over President Trump’s trade war. It comes as top U.S. and Chinese officials met for the first time this weekend in Switzerland, in what President Trump said he hopes is a “total reset” for tariff talks. After imposing 145% tariffs on China, the president posted ahead of the meeting, “80% tariff on China seems right! Up to Scott B.” That’s of course a reference to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Yet in the Oval Office this week, President Trump showed no willingness to negotiate lower tariffs with China.
[START TAPE]
REPORTER:
China says in order to have substantive negotiations, you have to bring down your 145% tariffs. Are you open to pulling back your tariffs in order to bring China to the negotiating table?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump announced this week the U.S. and the UK had reached the first framework for a trade deal of his administration.
[START TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The deal includes billions of dollars of increased market access for American exports, especially in agriculture, dramatically increasing access for American beef, ethanol, and virtually all the products produced by our great farmers.
PRIME MINISTER KEIR STARMER:
This is going to boost trade between and across our countries. It’s going to not only protect jobs, but create jobs, opening market access.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
But trade deals with other nations are still far from certain as the Federal Reserve Chair Jermome Powell is warning that President Trump’s tariffs could lead to higher inflation and job losses.
[START TAPE]
JEROME POWELL:
If the large increases in tariffs that have been announced are sustained, they are likely to - to generate a rise in inflation, a slowdown in economic growth and an increase in unemployment.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Meanwhile, as the White House faces growing challenges in the courts over its mass deportation plans, Stephen Miller, a top Trump advisor said on Friday that the administration is actively looking to suspend Habeas Corpus for undocumented immigrants - that’s due process protections that allow them to challenge their detentions in court.
[START TAPE]
STEPHEN MILLER:
Well the Constitution is clear, and that of course is the supreme law of the land, that the privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus can be suspended in a time of invasion. So to say that is an option we’re looking at.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is the Senate Majority Whip, Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming. Senator Barrasso, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Oh, good morning, and Happy Mother's Day to you, and to all the mothers who are watching today.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ah, thank you so much, Senator Barrasso, I really appreciate it, and thank you so much for being here. I do want to start on Ukraine. President Putin saying that he is interested in having direct talks with Ukraine later this week. Of course, that comes after President Trump and European leaders said that they want to see an unconditional 30-day ceasefire, and if not, threaten to impose sanctions. Do you believe that President Putin's offer is a rejection of President Trump's proposal, Senator?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, what we're seeing here is America's strength and leadership under President Trump, and it's so wonderful to see the European nations step up to join President Trump in this show of strength to Putin. The killing needs to stop. And I think the 30-day ceasefire is something that Putin needs to accept. Look, a longstanding peace in that part of the world between Ukraine and Russia, that’s verifiable, is going to be good for Ukraine, Russia, Europe, and the United States. And we wouldn't be in this position if we'd had a strong leader previously. Joe Biden did nothing to deter Putin from invading, and didn't give Ukraine the weapons that they needed when they needed them most. And the Senate is ready to stand behind President Trump, with him. We have 70 Senators who have committed in a bipartisan piece of legislation to really go after Russia in a punishing way with devastating sanctions on anybody who buys oil, gas, or uranium from Russia, 500% tariffs. And their number one and number two customers are China and India. But there are also countries in Europe who are buying energy from Russia. Putin understands strength, not statements. It's time to end the war.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, we'll see how that unfolds. It's obviously an incredibly dynamic situation. I do want to move onto another incredibly dynamic situation. Of course, these talks about tariffs. President Trump seemed optimistic about the ongoing trade talks with China. He called the tariff talks a, quote, "total reset." Of course, his Treasury Secretary leading those talks with his Chinese counterpart. You've been incredibly supportive of President Trump's high tariffs against China. You said that they're a way to stand up to China. Senator, how confident are you that the U.S. can get a fair deal with China?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, first there was the British announcement this week. And in Wyoming where beef is such a big part of our economy, this was a big deal. We're all for it. And I think many other discussions with other countries are going to go into that. I'm happy to see President Trump standing up to China. And look, here we are a week after his interview with you, and we are actively engaged in negotiations with China. President Trump learned in his first term that you can't trust China. China's economy is weak. They need us, they need our markets. But it's been a one-way street. We need to make sure that their markets are open to us. What we have seen during COVID is that we were dangerously dependent on China for critical minerals, critical medicines. We said never again can we allow that to happen. We know that China has taken advantage of the United States, probably taken more jobs and money from us by stealing our trade secrets than all other countries combined. They use it to get stronger as a nation, to spy on us. I think President Trump is doing the right thing, standing up for American workers and American jobs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about some of the messaging, though. Because as you know, tariffs have already started to increase prices on some goods, including car seats, strollers, work tools. I want you to listen to a part of my interview with President Trump when he talked about what this could mean for supplies. Take a listen.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
I'm just saying they don't need to have 30 dolls, they can have three. They don't need to have 250 pencils, they can have five.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, what do you say to people who hear those words and feel like the President is telling them to ration their goods?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, the President, I think, is very effective at using the bully pulpit. And he is using it, I think, to show strength and leadership of America. A week ago you would've never foreseen the discussions going on in Switzerland this week between our trade representative, our Secretary of Treasury, and China. We wouldn't have foreseen the deal with Great Britain. We wouldn't have seen the call for the ceasefire, and Putin agreeing to have peace talks. The President is very effective at using the bully pulpit. And I've been traveling around Wyoming, been in four communities this weekend. What people are concerned about here at home is the fact- and they're happy about is that the price of gasoline is $0.50 cheaper a gallon now that it was at graduation time last year, $10 cheaper to fill up their truck. That's what the American people are concerned about: their own pocketbooks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, I know you were talking about lower prices during the Biden administration. You expressed real concerns that prices had increased at stores like the Dollar Tree, for example, which you talked about how important a store like that is to Wyoming, to rural communities in particular. And now the Dollar Tree says that the tariffs could actually push them to raise prices again, and that they may not be able to stock some of their goods. What do you say, Senator, to the people of Wyoming who hear that, who rely on stores like the Dollar Store, and they're worried?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, I travel around Wyoming. People in Wyoming are very happy with the President and what he's doing to help our economy. Tariffs are just one tool as part of our comprehensive economic plan. We're trying to get that passed in the very near future in Congress, focused on both the safety and the prosperity of the American people. We are focused on lowering prices, raising wages, and bringing jobs back to America. And that's our focus right now in Congress.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you took me exactly to my next question, because I want to talk about the President's tax bill. In order to get some of the savings needed to pass it, President Trump floated the idea of increasing taxes on the highest income earners, those making more than $2.5 million. He also acknowledged the politics are quite thorny. But Senator, would you support that, increasing taxes on the highest income earners?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, I'm a conservative and I don't want to increase taxes on anybody. What you do know is that the Democrats, if we don't get this bill passed, they're going to raise taxes by $4 trillion on the American people. It will hit every working family in America with higher taxes. And you know, 84% of Americans don't like what the Democrats are proposing. Our goal is to keep more money in people's pockets. So you go to the store, pay the rent, save for retirement. That's what our focus is -
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator -
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
- lower costs and higher wages.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to be very clear, yes or no, you are not ruling out the possibility of increasing taxes on the highest income earners?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
I oppose raising taxes on anyone -
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you rule it out?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO
- and the Democrats want to raise $4 trillion in taxes on everyone.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But do you rule it out, Senator? Do you rule it out?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
We’re in the - I am against raising taxes on anyone. We're working through the bill through the process. It's going through the House. We're ironing out the details right now. We're going to get a bill passed and signed by the president that's going to put more money in people's pockets, and give them the certainty that taxes aren't going to go up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Finally, Senator, I want to talk about something that one of President Trump's top aides, Stephen Miller, said this week. He said the administration is “actively looking” at suspending habeas corpus. Just for our audience, that's the right to challenge a person's detention by the government. This would be a part of the broader efforts to speed up their deportation policies. The Constitution says that habeas corpus may not be suspended, quote, "Unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion." Would you vote to suspend habeas corpus, since the power does ultimately lie with Congress?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
The President has said he will follow the law. The President says if he disagrees with the law that he will appeal those things. The President was elected and he won every one of the battleground states on promising to secure the border and bring safety back to our communities. That's exactly what he is doing. People do not want to live with MS-13 gang members in their communities. The Democrats lost the election because they opened the borders to ten million illegal immigrants, including members of criminal cartels, drug dealers, gang members. That's what the election was about. And the President is now seeing radical district judges using their courts to set national standards, making it harder for the President to deport individuals, criminals, and I stand with the President.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet, Senator, just to put a fine point on it, so I want to know what you would do. Would you vote to suspend habeas corpus if this were brought before Congress? Ultimately, this power lies with Congress.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
The President said he is going to follow the law. He was on with you last week. He said he has great respect for the Supreme Court. He said he expects the Attorney General to do the right thing. And I expect that the President will.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can you just give me a yes or no, what you would do, though? Would you support suspending habeas corpus?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
I don't believe this is going to come to Congress. What I believe is the President is going to follow the law. He has said it repeatedly.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Barrasso, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it, and appreciate your Mother's Day wishes as well. Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, and thank you. And when we come back -
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
You, too. Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you, Senator. And when we come back, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator Klobuchar, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Thanks, Kristen, and Happy Mother's Day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Happy Mother's Day to you. Thank you for spending part of your Mother's Day with us, we really appreciate it. I do want to start on the big news of the day. Of course, there are these trade talks underway in Geneva, Switzerland. And – the US, of course, has argued that part of the goal here is to stem the flow of fentanyl. You, in the past, have supported targeted tariffs, and I wonder if in fact, at the end of the day, these tariffs do accomplish stemming the flow of fentanyl and leveling the playing field with China, will you think that the Trump tariffs are a success?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Obviously, I'd like to see less fentanyl come into our country and that should be on the table for discussion. But the way this has been handled from the very beginning, Kristen – and the American people know it – chaos is up, corruption is up and costs are up. Just ask any mom today, on Mother's Day, when they're out trying to get a stroller. They're up like 25%. This is real. I listen to my colleague from Wyoming, who I respect very much, but I'm thinking, “Let's get real here.” Supply chain problems for small businesses. They've lost 300,000 jobs in small businesses in just the first few months of this president's presidency. Only 37% of Americans think he's handling the economy right, and he has the lowest poll numbers of any president since polling started in the first 100 days. That's because Americans don't want to hear all this talking points. They know what's really happening in their lives, like a woman named Beth Benike, who owns a store called Busy Baby. She sells online, and her business has been decimated despite being entrepreneur of the year in my state because of how they have handled China, how they have been handling countries all over the world. Sure, I'm glad they're talking, but they have assessed 10% to 25% tariffs on our allies, the very people that we would need, our friends and allies, in order to deal with China. So to me, they've been approaching this all upside-down. Targeted tariffs, yes, but they should be working within trade agreements like the Canada, Mexico trade agreement with the U.S. to strengthen that instead of these across the board tariff taxes on all Americans and now a baby tax.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let me ask you about another part of my conversation, as you say, with your colleague, John Barrasso. I asked him about Stephen Miller coming out saying the administration is looking into the possibility of suspending habeas corpus. As I noted, the Constitution says that is a right that lies with Congress. What, if anything, will you do if the Trump administration does move forward to try to suspend habeas corpus? Do you believe you have any recourse?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
I listened to the interview – that – the good interview you did with the president last week and I think we start with that. When you ask him, "Do you respect the Constitution? Will you follow the Constitution?" He says, "I don't know. I'll have to ask a lawyer." He takes an oath to preserve and protect and defend the Constitution before the American people. And in that Constitution there is the right of habeas corpus. And as you point out, only the Congress can reverse it. Even conservative commentators have said that. But to me, you know what? That isn't really the issue. The issue is that Stephen Miller brings that up on a Friday, just to throw it out there. You heard the reaction of John Barrasso. This is not what they're talking about in Congress. Why is he doing that? So you ask me about it on a Sunday show. I'm telling you right now, he's doing it because they don't want to focus on what's really in front of them and that they have created havoc in our economy, economy that was improving, and now we have people out there scared to death that they're not going to be able to get their social security because people aren't working there to answer their calls. They're not going to be able to get their Medicaid and – or be able to have their mom in assisted living. And yeah, their small businesses are folding. That's what's happening right now, and they don't want to deal with it so they keep throwing out these things just so we all talk about them for four days. And I am, frankly, tired of it. Because no, they're not going to reverse habeas corpus in the Congress. That's not going to happen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Senator, you talk about the Constitution. Some of your colleagues, Senator Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, for example, says the United States is in a constitutional crisis right now. You have stopped short of saying that in recent interviews. Let me ask you now, do you think the United States is in a constitutional crisis?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
I've made very clear that we are heading closer to one. But the reason we're not in a constitutional crisis like we have been at any moment, other moments in our country, like, say, the Civil War, when the states were actually dividing and seceding – we are not in a constitutional crisis because of the courts of this country. Over 100 of them, including multiple Trump-appointed judges, have stood up and said, “Hey, this is unconstitutional. You can't steal people's private data in Social Security, Elon Musk. You cannot freeze funds for medical research that a Democratic and Republican Congress have already allocated for life saving cancer trials.” That's what's been going on right now. It is a stress test on our Constitution, that's for sure. And the second thing that I'd like to see happen more, since we have three co-equal branches of government, is that the rubber stamp Republicans in Congress would actually stand up and say, “You know what? These – this tariff tax of $4,000 per family is not good for my constituents.” They could actually take back their power and say no to this president instead of rubber stamping every single thing he does.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let me get your reaction to what we heard from former President Biden who spoke out this week for the first time since leaving office. Here he is talking about his exit from the 2024 race. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
NICK ROBINSON:
Should you have withdrawn earlier, given someone else a bigger chance?
FMR. PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I – I don't – I don't think it would have mattered.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, would the party have had a better chance of winning in 2024 had President Biden dropped out sooner?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
You know, everything we look at in a rear-view mirror after you lose an election. Yes, we would have been served better by a primary. But we are where we are. We're not on the History Channel right now. And I believe that President Biden can come out and speak and do interviews whenever he wants, but I will say this: we're not on the History Channel. And our Republican colleagues, instead of dealing with where we are now, think they're in some kind of a – of a way back zone, that they can go in some kind of time – go bring time backwards and blame everything on Joe Biden. Donald Trump is the president right now, and we have to deal with helping the American people. My party, we want to focus on lowering costs, on finding new ways to build more housing and get more affordable energy, on really working with our entrepreneurs all over the country to seize on this moment that we have with everything from mapping the human genome to AI to actually expanding more small businesses, not retracting them, like this president is doing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator –
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
So I'm not interested in going backwards in time. I'm interested in going forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
One more because former President Biden did do a series of interviews this week. He was asked whether he was surprised that Vice President Harris lost. Here’s his response there.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I wasn’t surprised, not because I didn't think the Vice President's a qualified person to be president. She is. She's qualified to be president of the United States of America. But I was surprised – I – I wasn't surprised because they went the route of the sexist – the sexist route of the whole “This is a woman, she's this, she’s that.”
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
FOR SUBSCRIBERSA harrowing ordeal aboard an Israel-bound plane
FOR SUBSCRIBERSThe debate over AI’s future rages on both coasts
Senator, do you worry when you hear that, that the lesson that Democrats will take from the 2024 election is that they shouldn't put a woman at the top of the ticket?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
I hope not. You have seen women run other countries quite well. Angela Merkel comes to mind in Germany. And you've also seen women in the U.S., incredible mayors, incredible governors. I look in the Senate for Democrats in the last election. Three of the four races where we beat the presidential ticket were women running in Michigan, women running in Nevada, women running in Wisconsin. I mean, this happened, so I just – I don't think that's a lesson to learn. I know it's not easy running as a woman. If it was, we could play the game “Pick your favorite woman president.” You can't. But I think the president understands there's been sexism, President Biden does. But to me, I just want to move forward, and we've got incredible candidates across the board –
FOR SUBSCRIBERSA harrowing ordeal aboard an Israel-bound plane
FOR SUBSCRIBERSThe debate over AI’s future rages on both coasts
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
– are running at all levels of government. So let's work on helping the American people, instead of looking backwards.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator –
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Instead of looking at what happened years ago, I want to look at the now, and people need our help.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's look forward. I know you know how tough it is to run for president, because you've done it before. Would you rule out running again, Senator? Yes or no? We're out of time.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
I am focused on my job right now. I'm third in leadership in the Senate, and we have a lot to do, and that means making sure people have got their Medicaid, their Social Security and taking on these Trump tariffs that are hurting the American people and our economy and not helping small businesses. I want a better America, and I just don't think that's how we're going to get there with this president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright. I don't hear you ruling it out. Senator Klobuchar, thank you very much for joining and Happy Mother’s Day again –
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Thanks, Kristen. It's great to be on. Happy Mother's Day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Happy Mother's Day. Enjoy the rest of your day. We really appreciate you joining us on Mother's Day. When we come back, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy joins me as concerns grow over safety in the skies.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. At one of the nation’s busiest airports, planes have lost contact with air traffic control multiple times since August. Early Friday morning, the air traffic controllers for Newark lost radar displays for 90-seconds.
[BEGIN TAPE]
"Our scopes just went black again. If you care about this, contact the airline and try to get some pressure for them to fix this stuff.”
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER: The outages are raising concerns about airline safety across the country ahead of the busy summer travel season. I sat down with transportation secretary Sean Duffy on Friday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now is the Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy. Secretary Duffy, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
Thank you so much. Good to be with you. Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is wonderful to have you here in person. I have to start with the latest out of Newark Airport, where air traffic controllers had another brief radio and radar outage. This happened early Friday morning. This is, of course, on top of losing contact with pilots multiple times since August. Mr. Secretary, what can you tell us about this latest incident, and why does this keep happening?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So, I'll tell you – listen, the system is old, right? This is a system that's what — 25 at best, sometimes 50 years old. The – the Congress and the country haven't paid attention to it, right? They expect it to work. And so now I think the – the lights are blinking, the sirens are turning, and they're saying, “Listen, we have to fix this,” because what you see in Newark is going to happen in other – in other places across the country. It has to be fixed, and so what we're having is some telecom issues, but we're also having some glitches in our software. As the information comes in, it’s overloading some of our lines, and the system goes down. So I'll just tell you specifically in Newark, we believe we're going to have it up and running in short order. We're going to be able to fix that glitch. And we feel a little more comfortable about our primary line that gets the data in, on – on – on radar, and our redundant line is up and working as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Big picture, Mr. Secretary, is it safe to fly in and out of Newark airport right now?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
It is. So that's — I fly out of Newark all the time. My family flies out of Newark. And just when – when – when we saw these two incidents, when – when we have issues, there are policies and procedures in place for controllers and for pilots. They know what to do. It is not ideal, by any stretch, but they – they do implement those procedures, and they stay away from each other, and they – and we vacate the airspace. And, again, we have to fix it, though. This is – this is an American issue, and – and it's going to be an American congressional priority, I think, in this coming year, to get us the money to – to do the three or four-year build that it's going to take to get this completed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I want to talk about the overhaul that you –
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– have announced this week. But before we get there, do you need to scale back flights coming in and out of Newark while you are addressing these glitches, these problems that are so potentially dangerous?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
One hundred percent. So we actually have brought down the number of airplanes that come in and leave Newark because, listen, our mission is safety. And so – yeah, I hate delays. I hate cancellations. And I hate families who come with little kids that are sitting there for four hours. I've done that myself on occasion. It's hard. But I want you to get to where you're traveling. And if that means slowing down flights into Newark, we slow them down to make sure we can do it safely. We lost a few controllers who were stressed out by the first connectivity that we lost last week. And so we have less controllers working the Newark airspace right now. And, you know, we're having these – these glitches in the system. So we slow it down and keep people safe. That's what we do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How long will these delays and these cancellations last? As you say, this is incredibly challenging for families, particularly as we are approaching the summer travel season.
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So what we want is we – we want to have a number of flights that if you – if you book your flight, you know it's going to fly, right? That’s – that is the priority. So you don't get to the airport, wait four hours, and then – and then get delayed. So I think, you know, we’re going to have – you know, in the next several weeks we're going to have this reduced capacity at Newark. I'm convening a meeting of all the airlines that serve Newark, get them to agree on how they're going to reduce the capacity, so you book, you fly. We are building a new line that goes directly from Newark to the Philly TRACON, which controls the New York airspace. What happens now is it goes from Newark to N90, which is where it used to be controlled, and then down to Philly. That doesn't make sense. We're going to have a direct line there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When will that be completed?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So, listen, it's – it’s a long distance, so we think by the end of the summer it should be completed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when you say you are going to decrease the number of flights, do you have a percentage? 10%? 20%?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So for the percent, I don't – I don’t know. It's going to fluctuate too, so in the – in the morning, in early afternoon, we're going to have more capacity. As those international flights come in in the afternoon, we slow it down a little bit more.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you talked about the fact that this might not be confined to Newark. Are there other airports that you are concerned about right now, Mr. Secretary?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
No, I’m controlled about the – I'm concerned about the whole airspace, right? The equipment that we use, much of it we can't buy parts for new. We have to go on eBay and buy parts if one part goes down. You're dealing with really old equipment. We're dealing with copper wires, not fiber, not high-speed fiber. And so this is – this is concerning. Is it safe? Yes, we have redundancies, multiple redundancies in place to keep you safe when you fly. But we should also recognize we're seeing – we’re seeing stress on an old network, and it's time to fix it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Bottom line, is it safe to fly in the United States right now?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
We are – listen, we are the safest airspace, for sure, and traveling by air is way safer than any other mode of transportation, which is why I take it, my family takes it. But again, that doesn't mean you don't look over the horizon and say, "Hey, if there — if there is a major outage, could that be a risk to life?" Of course it could be, which is why we fix it, which is why – you know, listen. This is what I think, is someone should have seen that there were 80 near misses at the DCA airspace, right? Someone should have seen it and stopped that cross traffic. I need to look and say, "Well, what is the other risks that exist in the airspace?" And I should see it, and I should fix it. And that's what I'm doing here. Before you lose life, I want to fix it so we preserve life and – and underscore safety.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Since you bring up DCA, Reagan National Airport, I do have to ask you. There was another close call –
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– at Reagan National Airport with an army Black Hawk helicopter. Of course this comes after that deadly crash in January. Mr. Secretary, should all military helicopter traffic be permanently halted from Reagan?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So I wouldn't say all, I – listen, I think there are some training missions that have to fly. But should they fly, you know, when there's maximum traffic coming into – into DCA? No. The president, the vice president will fly through the space. But what I want to make sure is if someone's flying out of the Pentagon, if they're VIPs, they truly are VIPs. And I think we should know: Who are the VIPs that fly? What training missions happen? Because it's a really busy airspace, and we want to limit those helicopters in the air, especially when we're flying during the day in D.C., in one of the busiest airspaces in the country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, absolutely. So you did announce this overhaul of outdated air traffic control systems. Will anything in your plan address these immediate issues? Because your plan costs billions of dollars, needs congressional approval, and could take years to implement, right?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So the problem we have is you can't snap your fingers and fix it, right? It takes time to build the infrastructure. And it’s – I say it's going to be three to four years to build it all, but we're going to focus on Newark first, so we're going to start to see Newark be far – far more resilient in the near term. But air traffic controllers, we're 3,000 short on air traffic control. I can't snap my fingers and bring in these highly-skilled air traffic controllers. All of this is going to take time. So the key here is we have to start. We have to begin the process of fixing the system. I can't say in two weeks I can have it fixed. That's not the space that we deal with. But I'm going to tell you, we are going to begin, and, you know, in the – in the months and years ahead, we're going to see real results.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You get – take me to my next question because the mandatory retirement age for air traffic controllers is actually 56 years old. But as you're indicating, it can take years to train an air traffic controller. Will you ask Congress to raise the mandatory retirement age for air traffic controllers?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So Congress has given me the authority to extend the retirement age for air traffic controllers from – from 56 to 61. But that's not the problem.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will you do it, though, Mr. Secretary?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
Oh, a hundred percent.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You're going to do it? Okay.
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
I've already told the union I'll do that. But here's the issue. So air traffic controllers, after 25 years of service, can retire. So many of them retire at 50 years old, well before that 56-year mandatory retirement. What I've done, I said, "Hey, listen. These are the best controllers we have in the airspace. Let's give them a bonus. I'm going to give them a 20% upfront bonus to stay on the job. Don't retire. Keep serving your country.” And these are the best guys. And so if we can keep more of those experienced air traffic controllers from retiring, and we're supercharging more young people into our academy – and, by the way, that’s – these are not overnight fixes. It's going to take them one to three years to get trained up. But as we go up, you know, one, two years, older guys on the job, younger guys coming in, men and women, and we can make up that 3,000-person difference.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you because as you are dealing with this crisis, Elon Musk and DOGE, as you know, have been making cuts at the FAA. And I think a lot of people are wondering, "Have these cuts made this situation worse? Have they increased the challenges and the potential safety concerns?"
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
Yeah, that's – that’s a great question. So in the safety mission of the FAA, like the air traffic controllers, no one was cut. We actually have staffed up. We've hired more air traffic controllers during this time. There were – there were probationary workers that were let go. Those are employees who were there less than a year and less – and, again, we excluded the safety positions. Most of them have come back. So, again, to say a department – the FAA has 46,000 employees. And if you lost 350, is this affecting our safety mission? There's a lot of things the FAA does. But for us, safety is key. So, no, we've retained all those safety positions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You're saying some were fired, some were brought back. People will hear that and think it sounds a little bit chaotic. I guess the bottom line is –
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
Okay, listen –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– did Elon Musk ask you to cut air traffic controllers directly?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So, listen, we – we were having a conversation about, "Who do we preserve?" And, again, I wanted in those probationary employees to preserve air traffic controllers. We went back and forth, and Elon agreed, the president agreed. Of course you want to keep air traffic controllers. We're trying to hire more of them. But – but I think the key is, "Can your government be more efficient?" We've had a massive expansion of government. You can actually be more efficient and still accomplish the mission of safety, which is what I think we can do. And are – actually, we are doing that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Did – did Elon Musk, though, initially ask you to cut air traffic controllers –
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
No.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– and did you dispute that?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
No.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Did you have a disagreement with him about that?
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
So, Elon and I get along really well. He never called me and said, "Cut air traffic control." He would never do that. This was a broader conversation about what positions are going to be preserved, right? So if we're going to let probationary employees go, again, they’ve – they're new employees. They just were hired on. Some might have been there for a month, some of them ten months. It was the new employees that we were going to let go. Many of them have come back. But this is not the institutional knowledge of the FAA that's being let go. Elon Musk understands the importance of the airspace and the need to have good controllers. Actually, SpaceX launches through the airspace and the FAA. We want good controllers that know the airspace to navigate all the issues that come up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Secretary Duffy, I know it's been a very busy week for you. Thank you so much for joining us.
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
Thank you for having me on again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, an American pope making history.
[BEGIN TAPE]
POPE LEO XIV:
You have called me to carry that cross and to be blessed with that mission, and I know I can rely on each and every one of you to walk with me as we continue as a church, as a community of friends of Jesus, as believers, to announce the good news, to announce the gospel.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. That was Pope Leo XIV delivering his first mass as the newly elected head of the Catholic Church. He is the first American to hold that title. The Chicago native is apparently a White Sox fan. 40 years ago our own Tim Russert met another Pope, Saint John Paul II. After his death in 2005, Tim shared this personal memory.
[BEGIN TAPE]
TIM RUSSERT:
This morning permit me a personal memory as a Catholic layman and a father. Easter week 1985, NBC news and the TODAY show spent an historic week at the Vatican. The next year my family returned. The Pope blessed the mom, then the dad, then his undivided attention on our baby Luke. He hugged him, then kissed his forehead, saying all the while, "Very nice, very nice, very nice." Then that smile. Luke was truly mesmerized by this most holy man. That moment, that blessing will be with us forever.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, former President Biden goes on defense over his 2024 campaign. The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Washington Managing Editor Carol Lee;NBC Senior National Political Reporter Sahil Kapur; Neera Tanden, president for the Center for American Progress; and Republican strategist, Matt Gorman. Happy Mother's Day, all. Carol, thank you for being here. Let's talk about the fact that President Trump's about to set off for his first official foreign trip. Comes as he's grappling with all of these issues on the world stage and as you have new reporting about potential strains with his relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu.
CAROL LEE:
Yeah, that's right. The president's going to go to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. And this is a trip that's going to focus on the economy. You'll see announcements about investments in the U.S., trade, arms deals, those sorts of things. But when it comes - when you step back and look at the broader world stage, the president's bigger priorities in terms of ending the–the war in Ukraine, what's happening in Israel, they're kind of stuck. And what we've learned, and the president is not going to Israel on this trip, is that the president and Prime Minister Netanyahu have had some tensions over the way forward on Gaza, on Iran. So while the president will be in the Middle East touting all of these economic–that he's delivering economically for the American people, he's really struggling more to deliver on these bigger challenges.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's going to create such a fascinating backdrop to that trip, Carol Lee. The other backdrop to the trip, Sahil, is what the administration floated at the end of the week. Stephen Miller saying that they are looking into the possibility of suspending Habeas Corpus as a part of their deportation policy. You heard Senator Barrasso say, "I don't think that's ever going to come to Congress." What do you make of it?
SAHIL KAPUR:
Yeah, that's right. It's been a mostly muted reaction from Republicans to this float. Obviously, there's a lot of Republican support for the broad idea of Trump's immigration crackdown. But Senator Barrasso side-stepping multiple times as to where he stands, I thought that was notable. Also notable that he told you he doesn't think it's coming to Congress. I find it particularly striking that this White House is almost treating Congress like it doesn't matter here because there's a century and a half of case law, going all the way back to Lincoln and the Civil War, that the president does not have unilateral authority to suspend habeas corpus. Lincoln ended up asking Congress to do it, and since then it's been a–very much a settled issue. I think Trump not asking for permission here is notable. It’s part and parcel of the way he operates. He doesn't ask for approval and new authorities. He takes those authorities and waits for someone to stop him. He will always take a mile until someone, Congress or the courts, tell him he can't.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, it's such a great point. And this is what we're seeing in this second administration, with President Trump taking all of these unilateral moves and here, again, floating the idea of suspending habeas corpus.
MATT GORMAN:
I took it as not just a trial balloon but a warning shot against the courts, and you even heard that a little bit in Senator Barrasso's answer. And in many ways those first 100 days, as you said in your interview, were about Trump and what he could do on his own. This next 100 days will be about the courts and Congress and what happens there. I think a lot of Republicans are going to pivot back to what they can do on immigration, the more successful policies they can get behind. But more than anything, I took that as more of a warning shot against the courts and those district court judges Barrasso talked about in his answer.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Neera, the Democrats are watching this very closely, Senator Klobuchar saying, "We're not quite at a constitutional crisis yet."
NEERA TANDEN:
I mean, I guess the substance of this is, habeas corpus is really the most baseline protection of individual liberty against the overreaching powers of the state. I'm old enough to remember when conservatives used to lecture us about those things. And, just the idea that the president is floating violating habeas corpus, I'm frankly shocked there aren't Republicans lining up to just say, "that is completely wrong.” It's just another demonstration of putting politics above the Constitution. And I think the courts will hold up the president. I think he will be stopped. But I think we should all be outraged that he's even talking about a constitutional violation like this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Carol, all of this is happening as Democrats are trying to figure out their path forward and as we're hearing from former President Biden. And I did think it was notable to hear Senator Klobuchar's reaction to what we heard from him.
CAROL LEE:
It was notable that she said that the party would've been better served if there was a primary in 2024. Look, a lot of Democrats are not happy that he's reemerging as the party's trying to find its way. There's still lingering frustration with how he handled 2024. But from the former president's perspective, he's being attacked regularly, almost daily, by President Trump. There are new accusations about him having a mental decline while in office. So he's decided that he's going to go out there and defend himself and defend his record. At the same time, this is the first time he's been out of politics in more than 50 years and he just wants back in –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah–
CAROL LEE:
–the conversation –
KRISTEN WELKER:
–it's a great point. Go ahead, Sahil.
SAHIL KAPUR:
Can I add to this? I think, Kristen, there's a good argument and a bad argument that President Biden can make in terms of his reemergence on the national stage. The good argument is about inflation and costs. Trump did oversell when he blamed Biden entirely for costs. Trump said he would bring it down on day one. It didn't quite happen. It's not really that simple. It's a structural, global problem. I think President Biden can make that point. The bad argument is if he argues he made the right decision to run for reelection and that he very, very much could have won, which he's suggesting. There's no data, there's no polling to suggest that he would've won. All the polling suggests that he would have gotten clobbered much worse than Vice President Kamala Harris did. And if he pursues this argument, I think we're going to hear more and more from Democrats who are quietly angry about the fact that they think he misled them in saying that he had another four years of him in this and that he could do another campaign.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That takes me to Neera. You served in the Biden administration. How do you see this and does Sahil have a point there?
NEERA TANDEN:
I mean, I guess I would say I do see this bifurcation. I mean, I do think a lot of Democrats look at Donald Trump, who seems to every day attack the president. It's almost like a noun, a verb, Donald–"But Joe Biden," for Donald Trump. And so, I think if it's talking about the record and how we had a stable economy in January and there seems to be a lot of chaos since, I think that's a good place for President Biden to be. I do think these comments in the last week, it–it really does feel to a lot of Democrats like re-litigating the November election and then, "Who could have won? Who wouldn't have won," is like our parents are fighting. And the truth is that Donald Trump today is–from Democrats' and actually a majority of Americans' perspectives–hurting a lot of people with tariffs, with - right now Congress is debating taking away health care for millions of people through Medicaid cuts. The fights in front of us are the most important. The future of the Democratic Party is actually in the future. And I think that's how most Democrats see it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, I spoke to one Republican who said, "Let him keep talking."
MATT GORMAN:
Let's go. No, I don't think Democrats are fully prepared for what's about to hit them. It's going to be a drumbeat of news over weeks. The first book, the first one, starts - drops in nine days, excerpts I'm told as soon as early this week. It reminds me a lot of what our party went through with the Iraq War. If you want to move past it and maintain your credibility, you have to first acknowledge it. Remember, voters were well ahead of the media, Democrats, elites on whether Joe Biden's age was an issue before the June debate. And I don't think they take kindly to being deceived for kind of craven political experiences. So I think they're going to have to reckon with that before we get to 2028.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys, great conversation on this Mother's Day. Thank you so much–
MATT GORMAN:
Happy Mother's Day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I appreciate it. Thank you.
CAROL LEE:
Happy Mother's Day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
–and that is all for today. Happy Mother's Day to all of you. Thank you for watching. Happy Mother's Day to all of you out there. We will be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.